1 00:01:01,437 --> 00:01:04,774 CLIFFORD: How long you been working on this project, Dan? 2 00:01:04,857 --> 00:01:07,651 DANIEL: Five years. 3 00:01:07,735 --> 00:01:09,987 CLIFFORD: Five, wow. 4 00:01:10,070 --> 00:01:13,115 Every day? Nights, weekends? 5 00:01:14,617 --> 00:01:16,911 DANIEL: It’s been very consuming. 6 00:01:19,872 --> 00:01:23,584 Do you have a relationship, Dan? Family? 7 00:01:23,667 --> 00:01:27,129 Just trying to get a better sense of who you are. 8 00:01:27,213 --> 00:01:29,590 When it started, I was seeing someone, but, you know, 9 00:01:29,673 --> 00:01:32,426 with the nature of the work and the hours... 10 00:01:32,510 --> 00:01:35,179 I wasn’t a very good partner. 11 00:01:39,058 --> 00:01:43,062 CLIFFORD: Five years, and it could all go away. 12 00:01:43,145 --> 00:01:46,106 Just vanish in the face of these allegations. 13 00:01:46,190 --> 00:01:48,025 I can certainly imagine 14 00:01:48,108 --> 00:01:49,944 an ambitious young man like yourself 15 00:01:50,027 --> 00:01:51,862 spends years with his head buried 16 00:01:51,946 --> 00:01:54,156 in some terrible spectacle, 17 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,450 gets frustrated with the process, 18 00:01:56,534 --> 00:01:58,828 sees an opportunity to get the truth out faster, 19 00:01:58,911 --> 00:02:00,204 maybe crosses a line. 20 00:02:00,287 --> 00:02:01,831 I’m assuming this is the most important thing 21 00:02:01,914 --> 00:02:03,624 -you’ve ever been a part of. -I didn’t do it. 22 00:02:03,707 --> 00:02:05,459 Or I can see an equally ambitious senator 23 00:02:05,543 --> 00:02:06,919 encouraging you to do something. 24 00:02:07,002 --> 00:02:08,879 Now would be a good time to tell me. 25 00:02:08,963 --> 00:02:10,965 That did not happen. What I did, I did on my own. 26 00:02:12,049 --> 00:02:13,259 I acted alone. 27 00:02:13,342 --> 00:02:15,010 SECURITY GUARD: You ever sleep, bro? 28 00:02:15,094 --> 00:02:17,805 -I used to. Got in the way of work. -(scanner beeps) 29 00:02:17,888 --> 00:02:20,099 Anything in that bag contain the real names 30 00:02:20,182 --> 00:02:22,309 of CIA officers, assets or partners, 31 00:02:22,393 --> 00:02:24,687 or any information that would be in violation 32 00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:27,106 of the agreement between the Central Intelligence Agency 33 00:02:27,189 --> 00:02:28,691 and the United States Senate? 34 00:02:28,774 --> 00:02:31,527 -Have a good night, Jay. -You, too, Dan. 35 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,155 CLIFFORD: So, you did steal the document? 36 00:02:35,239 --> 00:02:37,074 DANIEL: I did not steal it. I relocated it. 37 00:02:37,157 --> 00:02:38,534 CLIFFORD: Everyone has their own words. 38 00:02:38,617 --> 00:02:40,327 The language is built to choose sides. 39 00:02:40,411 --> 00:02:42,580 Now, why did you relocate it? 40 00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:46,250 They could send you to jail, Dan. 41 00:02:56,969 --> 00:02:58,971 DANIEL: I think I should start at the beginning. 42 00:03:03,517 --> 00:03:05,644 (traffic passing in distance) 43 00:03:18,449 --> 00:03:20,034 (camera beeps, clicks) 44 00:03:30,502 --> 00:03:32,755 (phone ringing in distance) 45 00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:42,181 -McDONOUGH: You Dan Jones? -Yeah. 46 00:03:42,264 --> 00:03:43,265 -Denis McDonough. -Hi. 47 00:03:43,349 --> 00:03:44,350 Thank you so much for meeting me. 48 00:03:44,433 --> 00:03:46,101 Come on in, yeah. Absolutely. 49 00:03:46,185 --> 00:03:47,770 So, thanks for coming in. 50 00:03:47,853 --> 00:03:49,229 Uh, tell me your story. 51 00:03:49,313 --> 00:03:51,148 My second day of grad school was September 11th. 52 00:03:51,231 --> 00:03:55,194 I was headed to a lecture, and everything just... stopped. 53 00:03:55,277 --> 00:03:57,947 The next day, I changed all my classes to national security. 54 00:03:58,030 --> 00:04:00,407 Good man. 55 00:04:00,491 --> 00:04:01,825 So, what’s the long-term plan? 56 00:04:01,909 --> 00:04:03,619 Where do you see yourself in ten years? 57 00:04:03,702 --> 00:04:05,037 Are you running for office? 58 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,622 Oh, uh, no. No politics for me. 59 00:04:06,705 --> 00:04:08,332 I think I’d be more effective behind the scenes, 60 00:04:08,415 --> 00:04:10,084 somewhere I can really make a difference. 61 00:04:10,167 --> 00:04:11,543 So, what about before Harvard? 62 00:04:11,627 --> 00:04:13,754 Uh, what’d you fill up your days with then? 63 00:04:13,837 --> 00:04:16,340 Teach For America for three years in Baltimore. 64 00:04:16,423 --> 00:04:17,549 Seventh-graders. 65 00:04:17,633 --> 00:04:19,343 I read that you taught high school Spanish 66 00:04:19,426 --> 00:04:20,928 in Saint Paul, Minnesota, after college? 67 00:04:21,011 --> 00:04:22,554 And LBJ’s first job was teaching 68 00:04:22,638 --> 00:04:24,640 at the Mexican school in South Texas. 69 00:04:24,723 --> 00:04:26,266 Knowing how to deal with children 70 00:04:26,350 --> 00:04:28,227 is a highly useful skill when working on the Hill. 71 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:29,687 (laughs) 72 00:04:29,770 --> 00:04:32,356 But from my perspective as Senate staff, 73 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:36,235 I would wait until things turn around up here. 74 00:04:36,318 --> 00:04:38,862 I think Senator Daschle would say the same thing. 75 00:04:38,946 --> 00:04:41,824 Go get some real-world experience in counterterrorism, 76 00:04:41,907 --> 00:04:44,243 in... foreign policy. 77 00:04:44,326 --> 00:04:46,453 Try the CIA. Try FBI. 78 00:04:46,537 --> 00:04:49,748 Have them teach you what they don’t teach you in a classroom. 79 00:04:49,832 --> 00:04:51,625 -Then you can come back here, and... -(phone ringing) 80 00:04:51,709 --> 00:04:54,253 help us fix all the things that Bush and Cheney are breaking. 81 00:04:54,336 --> 00:04:56,171 McDonough. 82 00:04:56,255 --> 00:04:58,507 Yes, Senator, uh, one second. 83 00:04:58,590 --> 00:05:00,676 The boss. Here. 84 00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:02,094 Keep in touch, huh? 85 00:05:02,177 --> 00:05:04,722 -Thank you very much for your time. -Absolutely. 86 00:05:04,805 --> 00:05:06,724 McDONOUGH: I do not have that information right now, 87 00:05:06,807 --> 00:05:09,268 but I can certainly get that for you in the next 15. 88 00:05:09,351 --> 00:05:11,228 -(door opens, closes) -Yeah. 89 00:05:16,608 --> 00:05:18,944 DANIEL: In regards to the bomb plots in Germany, 90 00:05:19,028 --> 00:05:20,320 three men were arrested in Medebach 91 00:05:20,404 --> 00:05:22,489 with 1,500 pounds of hydrogen peroxide 92 00:05:22,573 --> 00:05:24,825 and 26 military-grade detonators. 93 00:05:24,908 --> 00:05:26,785 The CIA suspects the Islamic Jihad Union... 94 00:05:26,869 --> 00:05:28,078 -(door opens) -MORRIS: Excuse me. 95 00:05:28,162 --> 00:05:29,997 Uh, can I borrow you for a minute, Dan? 96 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,832 Uh, Senator would like to see you. 97 00:05:31,915 --> 00:05:33,333 Yeah, of course. 98 00:05:34,209 --> 00:05:36,170 (phones ringing) 99 00:05:36,253 --> 00:05:39,089 -FEINSTEIN: Morning, Dan. -DANIEL: Morning, Senator. 100 00:05:39,173 --> 00:05:41,842 Have you seen the story today in The New York Times? 101 00:05:41,925 --> 00:05:44,261 -No, Senator, I have not. -Evidently, the CIA destroyed 102 00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:47,514 tapes of interrogations of Al Qaeda detainees. 103 00:05:48,807 --> 00:05:51,060 Did the Intel Committee know there were tapes? 104 00:05:51,143 --> 00:05:53,270 No. This is the first I’ve heard of it. 105 00:05:53,353 --> 00:05:56,774 So, I want to find out what was on the tapes 106 00:05:56,857 --> 00:05:58,233 and why they were destroyed. 107 00:05:58,317 --> 00:06:00,819 We want you to lead the investigation, Dan. 108 00:06:02,863 --> 00:06:04,990 But if the tapes were destroyed, how do we... 109 00:06:05,074 --> 00:06:07,117 FEINSTEIN: They’re saying they have written records. 110 00:06:07,201 --> 00:06:10,871 Thousands of pages. Let’s see about that. 111 00:06:10,954 --> 00:06:13,290 I want you to find out exactly what they have 112 00:06:13,373 --> 00:06:15,250 and read every word of it. 113 00:06:18,462 --> 00:06:19,797 (gavel banging) 114 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,551 FEINSTEIN: This report on the destruction of tapes by the CIA 115 00:06:24,635 --> 00:06:27,179 -has been two years in the making. -Thank you. 116 00:06:27,262 --> 00:06:29,848 The findings are very troubling, 117 00:06:29,932 --> 00:06:32,476 but it will remain classified. 118 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:35,979 Based on these revelations, a larger study into 119 00:06:36,063 --> 00:06:40,234 the entire CIA Detention and Interrogation Program 120 00:06:40,317 --> 00:06:43,237 is clearly in order. 121 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,073 All in favor, say "yay." 122 00:06:46,156 --> 00:06:48,367 -CLERK: Mr. Whitehouse? -WHITEHOUSE: Yay. 123 00:06:48,450 --> 00:06:51,161 -CLERK: Mr. Burr? -BURR: Yay. 124 00:06:51,245 --> 00:06:54,248 -CLERK: Mr. Rockefeller? -ROCKEFELLER: Yay. 125 00:06:54,331 --> 00:06:56,583 CLERK: Mr. Chambliss? 126 00:06:56,667 --> 00:06:58,210 -CHAMBLISS: Nay. -CLERK: Mr. Risch? 127 00:06:58,293 --> 00:07:00,629 CHAMBLISS: I think this is a waste of time. 128 00:07:00,712 --> 00:07:02,631 Now, I know you voted against this, Saxby... 129 00:07:02,714 --> 00:07:05,092 But you already had your tapes investigation. 130 00:07:05,175 --> 00:07:08,470 Yes, but the rest of us voted to go further, 14 to one. 131 00:07:08,554 --> 00:07:11,140 It’s our job to provide oversight. 132 00:07:11,223 --> 00:07:15,561 All during the campaign, you got candidate Obama saying 133 00:07:15,644 --> 00:07:18,355 how he wanted to be the first post-partisan president. 134 00:07:18,438 --> 00:07:20,190 Saxby, you know me. 135 00:07:20,274 --> 00:07:22,067 It’s my intention that this report be seen 136 00:07:22,151 --> 00:07:24,653 as coming from the entire Intelligence Committee, 137 00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:26,321 not just the Democrats. 138 00:07:26,405 --> 00:07:27,948 So, who takes the lead? 139 00:07:28,031 --> 00:07:30,701 Well, I was thinking Dan Jones. 140 00:07:30,784 --> 00:07:33,829 He spent four years doing counterterrorism at the FBI. 141 00:07:33,912 --> 00:07:36,582 He’s already got the security clearances. 142 00:07:36,665 --> 00:07:40,127 The rules are the same as the tapes investigation. 143 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:42,087 No politics, no bias, 144 00:07:42,171 --> 00:07:43,881 and the senator isn’t interested 145 00:07:43,964 --> 00:07:45,716 in opinions or theories, just facts. 146 00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:47,342 Based on what you found out already, 147 00:07:47,426 --> 00:07:50,304 this could go to a pretty dark place. 148 00:07:50,387 --> 00:07:52,431 You need to keep your personal feelings out of it. 149 00:07:52,514 --> 00:07:55,434 That’s the first thing Republicans are gonna look for. 150 00:07:55,517 --> 00:07:57,519 No talking to the press or your girlfriend 151 00:07:57,603 --> 00:07:59,313 or any family members. 152 00:07:59,396 --> 00:08:01,440 Nobody outside of the committee. 153 00:08:01,523 --> 00:08:03,275 You’re gonna get a team of six-- 154 00:08:03,358 --> 00:08:04,776 three Republicans, three Democrats-- 155 00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:06,820 but there can’t be any Republican sentences 156 00:08:06,904 --> 00:08:08,614 or Democratic paragraphs. 157 00:08:08,697 --> 00:08:10,490 And how long do we have? 158 00:08:10,574 --> 00:08:13,327 We’re hoping you can wrap it up in a year or so. 159 00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:17,080 You’re gonna have to keep the senators updated on your work. 160 00:08:17,164 --> 00:08:19,458 Nobody wants any surprises. 161 00:08:19,541 --> 00:08:22,711 There’s a covert CIA off-site in Virginia. 162 00:08:22,794 --> 00:08:23,962 You start tomorrow. 163 00:08:24,046 --> 00:08:26,048 -Jones, right? -Sean. 164 00:08:26,131 --> 00:08:29,343 -Hi. Dan. -Sean Murphy from the Agency. 165 00:08:29,426 --> 00:08:31,678 -Let’s go inside. -Okay. 166 00:08:36,016 --> 00:08:38,435 SECURITY GUARD: Identification, gentlemen. 167 00:08:38,518 --> 00:08:41,021 -The room we’ve designated is a SCIF. -(scanner beeps) 168 00:08:41,104 --> 00:08:43,357 No phone reception, no photos-- you know the drill-- 169 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,442 -lead walls. -(scanner beeps) 170 00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:47,361 DANIEL: And, per the agreement, 171 00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:48,987 the room is off-limits to everyone 172 00:08:49,071 --> 00:08:50,906 -except committee personnel. -Absolutely. 173 00:08:50,989 --> 00:08:52,824 No one inside without your permission. 174 00:08:52,908 --> 00:08:54,701 (door opens) 175 00:08:56,787 --> 00:08:58,372 (door closes) 176 00:09:02,793 --> 00:09:04,670 -And the computers? -Right here. 177 00:09:04,753 --> 00:09:07,172 Your own dedicated server, air-gapped workstations. 178 00:09:07,256 --> 00:09:09,132 We’ll be updating the database as we go. 179 00:09:09,216 --> 00:09:11,301 The files will be loaded on here as we collect them 180 00:09:11,385 --> 00:09:13,178 -from across the Agency. -Great. 181 00:09:13,262 --> 00:09:15,138 We’ll want all relevant documents as soon as possible. 182 00:09:15,222 --> 00:09:16,640 -Well, we got to vet it first. -Vet? 183 00:09:16,723 --> 00:09:18,100 There’s a lot to... 184 00:09:18,183 --> 00:09:19,476 Director Panetta agreed to give us 185 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,811 everything pertaining to the program. 186 00:09:20,894 --> 00:09:23,021 Wh-Who would be, who would be vetting it? 187 00:09:23,105 --> 00:09:25,023 It’s a big agency. 188 00:09:25,107 --> 00:09:26,775 We got to make sure you don’t get anything 189 00:09:26,858 --> 00:09:28,986 you’re not supposed to. 190 00:09:29,069 --> 00:09:31,571 (keypad beeping) 191 00:09:35,284 --> 00:09:37,244 (light switches clicking) 192 00:09:37,327 --> 00:09:39,538 (lights clinking) 193 00:09:54,428 --> 00:09:56,638 Make yourself at home. 194 00:10:05,605 --> 00:10:08,692 There’s... no printer? 195 00:10:08,775 --> 00:10:10,152 No paper. 196 00:10:10,235 --> 00:10:12,279 No documents are allowed to leave the room 197 00:10:12,362 --> 00:10:14,156 without CIA approval. 198 00:10:14,239 --> 00:10:18,201 Paper has a way of getting people in trouble at our place. 199 00:10:20,704 --> 00:10:23,248 I think at some point we’re gonna need a printer. 200 00:10:23,332 --> 00:10:24,416 And paper. 201 00:10:24,499 --> 00:10:27,044 At our place... 202 00:10:27,127 --> 00:10:29,629 paper’s how we keep track of laws. 203 00:10:33,008 --> 00:10:34,551 Okay. 204 00:10:58,992 --> 00:11:01,161 (mouse clicking) 205 00:11:09,461 --> 00:11:11,671 (TV reporter speaking faintly) 206 00:11:11,755 --> 00:11:15,175 TV REPORTER: ...calling this an obvious terrorist attack 207 00:11:15,258 --> 00:11:17,469 based on very preliminary information, 208 00:11:17,552 --> 00:11:19,346 -(phones ringing) -the information that 209 00:11:19,429 --> 00:11:20,680 intelligence officials are getting... 210 00:11:20,764 --> 00:11:22,474 MAN: You’re not gonna like this. 211 00:11:22,557 --> 00:11:24,643 TV REPORTER: ...a possible hijacked plane, and of course 212 00:11:24,726 --> 00:11:27,979 the-the very horrifying video of the plane... 213 00:11:28,063 --> 00:11:30,399 We confirmed some of the names. 214 00:11:30,482 --> 00:11:31,775 The hijackers? 215 00:11:31,858 --> 00:11:33,610 Two of the guys from the Malaysia meetings. 216 00:11:33,693 --> 00:11:35,987 The San Diego guys. They took down Flight 77. 217 00:11:36,071 --> 00:11:37,364 Pentagon. 218 00:11:37,447 --> 00:11:38,949 TV ANCHOR: ...the coordination that took place 219 00:11:39,032 --> 00:11:40,450 to have two planes hit the towers... 220 00:11:40,534 --> 00:11:42,494 Attention, everyone, please. 221 00:11:42,577 --> 00:11:44,830 We have reason to believe the Counterterrorism Center 222 00:11:44,913 --> 00:11:46,415 is a potential target. 223 00:11:46,498 --> 00:11:49,167 We’re asking all personnel to evacuate, immediately. 224 00:11:49,251 --> 00:11:51,169 -(crowd murmuring) -TV REPORTER: Jim Miklaszewski 225 00:11:51,253 --> 00:11:52,504 there from the Pentagon. 226 00:11:52,587 --> 00:11:54,089 Of course, the president has the authority 227 00:11:54,172 --> 00:11:56,633 to scramble military, uh, forces, 228 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:58,343 and, uh, this is a case, obviously, 229 00:11:58,427 --> 00:12:01,012 in which, uh, retaliation, if indeed it proves to be 230 00:12:01,096 --> 00:12:02,931 a terrorist incident, 231 00:12:03,014 --> 00:12:04,516 -will be contemplated. -(door closes) 232 00:12:04,599 --> 00:12:06,560 DICK CHENEY (over TV): We also have to work, though, 233 00:12:06,643 --> 00:12:08,145 sort of, the-the dark side, if you will. 234 00:12:08,228 --> 00:12:09,688 We’ve got to spend time in the shadows 235 00:12:09,771 --> 00:12:11,606 in-in the intelligence world. 236 00:12:11,690 --> 00:12:13,984 Uh, a lot of what needs to be done here 237 00:12:14,067 --> 00:12:16,778 will have to be done quietly, without any discussion... 238 00:12:16,862 --> 00:12:17,988 TENET: Fucking warned them. 239 00:12:18,071 --> 00:12:20,449 August 6th presidential briefing: 240 00:12:20,532 --> 00:12:22,451 "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in U.S." 241 00:12:22,534 --> 00:12:24,953 -Flashing red lights. -BLACK: And before that, 242 00:12:25,036 --> 00:12:27,164 in July, what did we say? 243 00:12:27,247 --> 00:12:29,583 "There will be significant terrorist attacks 244 00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:33,670 against the United States in the weeks and months to come." 245 00:12:33,753 --> 00:12:35,172 It’s not your fault. 246 00:12:35,255 --> 00:12:38,842 It is a mean, nasty, dangerous, uh, dirty business out there, 247 00:12:38,925 --> 00:12:41,303 and we have to operate in that arena. 248 00:12:41,386 --> 00:12:43,430 But we need to make certain that we have not 249 00:12:43,513 --> 00:12:46,725 tied the hands, if you will, of our intelligence community. 250 00:12:46,808 --> 00:12:49,352 Counterterrorism Director Black and I saw President Bush 251 00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:51,229 at Camp David this weekend. 252 00:12:51,313 --> 00:12:53,565 And the president gave me his word that there will be 253 00:12:53,648 --> 00:12:57,319 no changes in CIA leadership as a result of Tuesday’s attacks. 254 00:12:57,402 --> 00:12:59,070 We will look forward now, 255 00:12:59,154 --> 00:13:02,532 not waste time second-guessing or looking for blame. 256 00:13:02,616 --> 00:13:04,993 Going forward, we will be the tip of the spear 257 00:13:05,076 --> 00:13:07,329 in the battle against Al Qaeda. 258 00:13:07,412 --> 00:13:09,998 BLACK: As I said to the president, two weeks, 259 00:13:10,081 --> 00:13:13,126 we’ll have flies walking across Al Qaeda eyeballs. 260 00:13:13,210 --> 00:13:15,253 I’ve asked Chief Counsel Rizzo here to walk us through 261 00:13:15,337 --> 00:13:17,506 where we are from a legal standpoint. 262 00:13:17,589 --> 00:13:21,676 The president has issued a memorandum of notification 263 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,264 giving CIA the power to capture and detain suspected terrorists 264 00:13:26,348 --> 00:13:27,766 on the battlefield. 265 00:13:27,849 --> 00:13:29,726 Detain them where? 266 00:13:29,809 --> 00:13:31,937 Are we bringing them to the U.S.? 267 00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:34,147 We’re really not in the prison business 268 00:13:34,231 --> 00:13:36,399 -over in Counterterrorism. -TENET: Look, 269 00:13:36,483 --> 00:13:39,110 the budget for Counterterrorism last week was what? 270 00:13:39,194 --> 00:13:41,530 $600 million? 271 00:13:41,613 --> 00:13:45,200 The budget this week is whatever you need it to be. 272 00:13:45,283 --> 00:13:48,161 And we are in whatever business it takes to get the job done. 273 00:13:49,329 --> 00:13:51,122 DANIEL: Initially, CIA legal 274 00:13:51,206 --> 00:13:53,625 stated that any facility used to hold detainees 275 00:13:53,708 --> 00:13:56,378 had to meet the requirements of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, 276 00:13:56,461 --> 00:13:57,546 but then Deputy Director Pavitt 277 00:13:57,629 --> 00:13:58,922 thought that was gonna be too limiting. 278 00:13:59,005 --> 00:14:01,007 So, who came up with the black sites? 279 00:14:01,091 --> 00:14:02,092 Not totally clear. 280 00:14:02,175 --> 00:14:03,760 My guess is either 281 00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:06,555 a senior officer at Counterterr-- CTC, 282 00:14:06,638 --> 00:14:08,014 or Alec Station bin Laden unit 283 00:14:08,098 --> 00:14:09,683 decided black sites were the best option. 284 00:14:09,766 --> 00:14:12,686 Well, did the CIA tell the State Department 285 00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:16,481 they were making deals to hold people on foreign soil? 286 00:14:16,565 --> 00:14:19,609 Where was Secretary of State Powell in all this? 287 00:14:19,693 --> 00:14:21,152 Well, I found a memo. 288 00:14:21,236 --> 00:14:24,364 -The CIA’s general counsel... -(paper rustling) 289 00:14:24,447 --> 00:14:26,116 said the decision was made 290 00:14:26,199 --> 00:14:28,743 not to tell Powell about the program, 291 00:14:28,827 --> 00:14:31,454 because... 292 00:14:31,538 --> 00:14:33,039 "He would blow his stack 293 00:14:33,123 --> 00:14:35,542 if he were to be briefed on what was going on." 294 00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:39,421 Well, who decided that? 295 00:14:39,504 --> 00:14:41,256 Someone inside the White House. 296 00:14:41,339 --> 00:14:42,340 Mm-hmm. 297 00:14:43,425 --> 00:14:45,760 What about interrogations? 298 00:14:45,844 --> 00:14:47,596 President Bush’s memoranda 299 00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:49,681 just authorized capturing and detaining. 300 00:14:49,764 --> 00:14:51,850 It didn’t say anything about interrogations. 301 00:14:51,933 --> 00:14:54,769 And who gave them permission to play that role? 302 00:14:54,853 --> 00:14:58,732 Nobody. It looks like it started with legal at CTC. 303 00:15:01,651 --> 00:15:04,195 Do you want me to brief Senator McCain on this? I know he’s interested. 304 00:15:04,279 --> 00:15:06,990 The Republicans just pulled out of the study, Dan. 305 00:15:09,868 --> 00:15:12,245 (door opens) 306 00:15:12,329 --> 00:15:14,414 Good morning. 307 00:15:14,497 --> 00:15:16,458 Where is everybody? 308 00:15:18,543 --> 00:15:21,129 Attorney General Holder opened a criminal investigation 309 00:15:21,212 --> 00:15:22,589 into the CIA. 310 00:15:22,672 --> 00:15:25,133 As a result, the Agency won’t allow any of their people 311 00:15:25,216 --> 00:15:26,760 to be interviewed for our report. 312 00:15:26,843 --> 00:15:29,179 The Republicans don’t see how we can move forward, 313 00:15:29,262 --> 00:15:30,388 so they’re out. 314 00:15:30,472 --> 00:15:31,848 (Julian sighs) 315 00:15:31,931 --> 00:15:33,391 So, does this mean we stop? 316 00:15:33,475 --> 00:15:35,185 I mean, the committee voted to investigate. 317 00:15:35,268 --> 00:15:36,728 The senator says we keep going. 318 00:15:36,811 --> 00:15:38,647 But we can’t actually talk to anyone who was involved 319 00:15:38,730 --> 00:15:40,899 -in the program. -Right. According to CIA legal, 320 00:15:40,982 --> 00:15:43,443 CIA personnel is only speaking to DOJ. 321 00:15:43,526 --> 00:15:45,028 And is DOJ gonna share their findings? 322 00:15:45,111 --> 00:15:46,404 I mean, can we work with them? 323 00:15:46,488 --> 00:15:47,822 I’ve reached out to the special prosecutor. 324 00:15:47,906 --> 00:15:49,532 I’m waiting to hear back. 325 00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:51,451 Okay, but if nobody who actually worked on the program 326 00:15:51,534 --> 00:15:53,787 is going to talk to us, how do we investigate? 327 00:15:53,870 --> 00:15:55,288 So, we have the files, 328 00:15:55,372 --> 00:15:57,248 their e-mails and cables, their memos. 329 00:15:57,332 --> 00:15:58,958 We have to use their own communications 330 00:15:59,042 --> 00:16:00,251 to tell the story. 331 00:16:00,335 --> 00:16:02,796 Do you have any idea how hard that’s gonna be? 332 00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:05,048 The tapes investigation took two years, Dan, 333 00:16:05,131 --> 00:16:08,009 and this is about a lot more than what was on the tapes. 334 00:16:08,093 --> 00:16:11,012 Uh, we don’t even know what this is. 335 00:16:11,096 --> 00:16:13,264 Right, but we do know who it starts with. 336 00:16:13,348 --> 00:16:15,725 We go one detainee at a time. 337 00:16:19,688 --> 00:16:21,606 (typing) 338 00:16:39,708 --> 00:16:42,168 (jet engine idling) 339 00:16:44,546 --> 00:16:46,673 (speaks Arabic) 340 00:16:46,756 --> 00:16:48,883 (whimpering) 341 00:16:48,967 --> 00:16:49,926 You speak English? 342 00:16:51,469 --> 00:16:53,179 My name is Ali Soufan. I’m with the FBI. 343 00:16:53,263 --> 00:16:54,931 You’re under arrest. 344 00:16:55,014 --> 00:16:58,017 -You understand? -No. Where are you taking me? 345 00:17:00,645 --> 00:17:02,021 (door closes) 346 00:17:02,105 --> 00:17:04,232 (labored breathing) 347 00:17:04,315 --> 00:17:06,860 Your wound is infected. 348 00:17:06,943 --> 00:17:09,070 But we’re going to take good care of you. 349 00:17:13,992 --> 00:17:15,702 I want to show you something. 350 00:17:15,785 --> 00:17:16,870 (unzips bag) 351 00:17:22,292 --> 00:17:23,418 (chatter in Arabic over video) 352 00:17:23,501 --> 00:17:26,045 He’s talking to someone off-screen. 353 00:17:27,589 --> 00:17:30,341 He’s calling him Mukhtar. 354 00:17:30,425 --> 00:17:32,218 You know who that is? 355 00:17:32,302 --> 00:17:34,220 (chatter over video continues) 356 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,397 Mukhtar. 357 00:17:51,696 --> 00:17:54,199 -(button clicks, video stops) -A man who lost his mind? 358 00:18:01,623 --> 00:18:03,208 ZUBAYDAH: No, not him. 359 00:18:03,291 --> 00:18:04,834 (speaks Arabic) 360 00:18:11,424 --> 00:18:13,092 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? 361 00:18:17,889 --> 00:18:19,599 (Zubaydah groans) 362 00:18:41,913 --> 00:18:43,832 Abu Zubaydah confirmed that KSM is the leader 363 00:18:43,915 --> 00:18:46,668 of all Al Qaeda operations outside of Afghanistan. 364 00:18:46,751 --> 00:18:48,044 He trained the hijackers. 365 00:18:48,127 --> 00:18:49,629 We’re calling him the mastermind. 366 00:18:49,712 --> 00:18:51,256 TENET: Outstanding. 367 00:18:51,339 --> 00:18:53,341 Hats off to the bin Laden group. 368 00:18:53,424 --> 00:18:55,093 Whichever one of your people did this, 369 00:18:55,176 --> 00:18:57,345 I want to call them and congratulate them in person. 370 00:18:57,428 --> 00:18:59,347 Who was it? 371 00:18:59,430 --> 00:19:01,266 Wasn’t our guy. 372 00:19:01,349 --> 00:19:03,184 What? Who got it? 373 00:19:03,268 --> 00:19:05,937 BERNADETTE: FBI is working Zubaydah. 374 00:19:06,020 --> 00:19:07,397 An FBI guy got this? 375 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,315 Yes, Ali Soufan. 376 00:19:09,399 --> 00:19:11,234 Uh, they used him in the Cole investigation. 377 00:19:11,317 --> 00:19:13,653 He’s part of their counterterrorism group. He speaks Arabic. 378 00:19:13,736 --> 00:19:16,364 I don’t care who speaks Arabic. 379 00:19:16,447 --> 00:19:19,117 This is not just a criminal investigation. 380 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,869 We are gathering intelligence here. 381 00:19:20,952 --> 00:19:22,370 That is what we do. 382 00:19:22,453 --> 00:19:24,706 The FBI is looking at the past. 383 00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:26,958 We need to stop attacks in the future. 384 00:19:27,041 --> 00:19:29,294 I want CIA in the room with this guy, okay? 385 00:19:29,377 --> 00:19:32,338 I want CIA in the room with Zubaydah. 386 00:19:32,422 --> 00:19:34,048 GRETCHEN: So, who do we have who can work on him? 387 00:19:34,132 --> 00:19:35,633 CIA runs sources, people who cooperate. 388 00:19:35,717 --> 00:19:37,135 That’s not these guys. 389 00:19:37,218 --> 00:19:39,387 Every second we are not draining the detainee’s brain, 390 00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:41,180 we are rolling the dice. 391 00:19:41,264 --> 00:19:42,765 We need our people in the room. 392 00:19:42,849 --> 00:19:45,727 We need to be the ones asking the questions now. 393 00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:48,271 I heard from someone over in Technical Services, 394 00:19:48,354 --> 00:19:50,106 a woman named Miriam, 395 00:19:50,189 --> 00:19:52,817 about a couple of Air Force psychologists 396 00:19:52,901 --> 00:19:56,237 who came in and pitched a whole new approach to interrogations. 397 00:19:56,321 --> 00:19:58,615 Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen. 398 00:19:58,698 --> 00:20:01,701 Miriam says Mitchell has the special sauce. 399 00:20:01,784 --> 00:20:03,369 (phone rings in distance) 400 00:20:03,453 --> 00:20:06,247 Zubaydah didn’t tell us everything, 401 00:20:06,331 --> 00:20:10,043 because we stopped short of where we needed to go. 402 00:20:10,126 --> 00:20:15,757 SERE stands for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape. 403 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,261 It’s a program to help prepare U.S. Special Forces 404 00:20:20,345 --> 00:20:22,639 for whatever they might encounter if captured. 405 00:20:22,722 --> 00:20:26,142 Now, I have over 14,000 hours 406 00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:28,895 observing SERE interrogation techniques. 407 00:20:28,978 --> 00:20:30,980 Bruce here has more than that... 408 00:20:31,064 --> 00:20:32,899 Uh, observing, as opposed to...? 409 00:20:32,982 --> 00:20:35,944 I took a course in conducting interrogations as well. 410 00:20:36,027 --> 00:20:38,821 I worked with volunteers in actual simulations. 411 00:20:38,905 --> 00:20:41,908 We feel we can reverse engineer 412 00:20:41,991 --> 00:20:45,828 these SERE techniques to induce learned helplessness. 413 00:20:45,912 --> 00:20:47,830 EASTMAN: Can you explain what that means, 414 00:20:47,914 --> 00:20:49,874 "reverse engineer"? 415 00:20:49,958 --> 00:20:51,918 Instead of using these techniques 416 00:20:52,001 --> 00:20:53,670 to protect our people, 417 00:20:53,753 --> 00:20:57,882 we use them to achieve compliance in the detainees. 418 00:20:57,966 --> 00:21:01,177 Our plan involves, uh, using individual assessments 419 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:05,974 of detainees to create a program designed to induce 420 00:21:06,057 --> 00:21:09,769 debility, dependency and dread. 421 00:21:09,852 --> 00:21:12,981 -We call these the three "D"s. -Three "D"s. 422 00:21:13,064 --> 00:21:15,066 And there’s science to back this up? 423 00:21:15,149 --> 00:21:16,693 MITCHELL: Oh, yes. Yes, sir. 424 00:21:16,776 --> 00:21:18,486 BERNADETTE: Excuse me, Dr. Mitchell. 425 00:21:18,569 --> 00:21:21,531 Can you elaborate on, uh, the techniques you’ll be employing? 426 00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:23,032 Absolutely. 427 00:21:25,118 --> 00:21:28,037 The, uh, the attention grasp. 428 00:21:30,248 --> 00:21:31,874 Walling. 429 00:21:31,958 --> 00:21:33,960 Facial hold. 430 00:21:34,043 --> 00:21:38,297 The facial slap or insult slap. 431 00:21:38,381 --> 00:21:40,299 Cramped confinement. 432 00:21:41,843 --> 00:21:44,053 Wall standing. 433 00:21:44,137 --> 00:21:47,223 Stress positions. 434 00:21:47,306 --> 00:21:49,642 Sleep deprivation. 435 00:21:49,726 --> 00:21:51,769 Waterboarding. 436 00:21:51,853 --> 00:21:53,813 Use of insects. 437 00:21:53,896 --> 00:21:56,399 And mock burials. 438 00:21:59,777 --> 00:22:02,030 Well, from my perspective, this seems like it could be 439 00:22:02,113 --> 00:22:05,033 a potential game changer, but, of course... 440 00:22:05,116 --> 00:22:07,076 it’s up to Director Rodriguez. 441 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,912 I think if we’re serious about stopping the next threat, 442 00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:11,831 we need to put on our big boy pants 443 00:22:11,914 --> 00:22:13,708 and provide the authorities these guys need. 444 00:22:13,791 --> 00:22:18,254 These approaches might... raise some eyebrows at Defense. 445 00:22:18,337 --> 00:22:21,174 Well, we’re not at Defense. We’re at the CIA. 446 00:22:21,257 --> 00:22:22,633 Besides, you just said, 447 00:22:22,717 --> 00:22:24,677 we use this SERE stuff on our guys all the time. 448 00:22:24,761 --> 00:22:26,763 I don’t see a problem. 449 00:22:26,846 --> 00:22:28,765 DANIEL: Shortly after the CIA’s decision 450 00:22:28,848 --> 00:22:30,975 to engage Dr. Mitchell, Abu Zubaydah was moved 451 00:22:31,059 --> 00:22:33,269 to a cell that was lit 24 hours a day. 452 00:22:33,352 --> 00:22:36,481 Loud noise was fed into his cell to disrupt his sleep. 453 00:22:36,564 --> 00:22:38,441 What about the guy who got him talking? 454 00:22:38,524 --> 00:22:40,151 Ali Soufan? 455 00:22:40,234 --> 00:22:42,111 Wait, he’s FBI, not CIA. 456 00:22:42,195 --> 00:22:44,614 So, we can ask him questions, right? 457 00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:47,075 No rule against that. 458 00:22:47,158 --> 00:22:48,618 We can try. 459 00:22:57,835 --> 00:22:59,420 (birds chirping) 460 00:22:59,504 --> 00:23:01,839 SOUFAN: There’s only one interrogation technique 461 00:23:01,923 --> 00:23:04,425 that works: rapport building. 462 00:23:04,509 --> 00:23:07,261 You get close to these guys, and they open up. 463 00:23:07,345 --> 00:23:09,222 But the CIA didn’t believe that. 464 00:23:09,305 --> 00:23:10,890 Just look at Abu Zubaydah. 465 00:23:10,973 --> 00:23:13,101 Well, you got him to talk. How’d you do that? 466 00:23:13,184 --> 00:23:16,270 I walked in one day and played him a tape of himself. 467 00:23:16,354 --> 00:23:18,689 Most of it was of a phone conversation. 468 00:23:18,773 --> 00:23:20,233 Uh, we had tapped his phones. 469 00:23:20,316 --> 00:23:22,652 But he forgot to hang up at the end of the call, 470 00:23:22,735 --> 00:23:25,571 so we had all this background noise of his house. 471 00:23:25,655 --> 00:23:27,573 Then my partner walked in 472 00:23:27,657 --> 00:23:30,118 with a big box full of cassette tapes. 473 00:23:30,201 --> 00:23:32,370 We told him we had bugged his safe house; 474 00:23:32,453 --> 00:23:34,038 we had been listening for months; 475 00:23:34,122 --> 00:23:36,707 we knew everything, so lying was pointless. 476 00:23:36,791 --> 00:23:38,751 He looked at the box full of tapes and... 477 00:23:38,835 --> 00:23:40,211 And all-all the tapes were blank. 478 00:23:40,294 --> 00:23:43,005 Of course they were. But he didn’t know that. 479 00:23:43,089 --> 00:23:45,049 So, he talked. 480 00:23:45,133 --> 00:23:48,553 Uh, what happened when the contractors showed up? 481 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,472 Who the fuck is this? 482 00:23:51,556 --> 00:23:53,432 BERNADETTE: Dr. Mitchell is an Air Force psychologist, 483 00:23:53,516 --> 00:23:55,643 and he’s developed a new method of interrogation. 484 00:23:55,726 --> 00:23:57,186 SOUFAN: Why-why do we need a new method? 485 00:23:57,270 --> 00:23:59,188 He’s not telling you everything. 486 00:23:59,272 --> 00:24:01,399 BERNADETTE: We think he knows more. 487 00:24:01,482 --> 00:24:02,733 We put him at number three 488 00:24:02,817 --> 00:24:04,360 or number four in Al Qaeda leadership. 489 00:24:04,443 --> 00:24:05,486 He probably knows the next move. 490 00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:07,864 Do you speak Arabic, Jim? Does Gary here? 491 00:24:07,947 --> 00:24:09,198 Don’t need to. 492 00:24:10,908 --> 00:24:12,535 C-Can I ask you something? 493 00:24:12,618 --> 00:24:16,873 Have you ever interrogated any sort of extremist before? 494 00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:19,959 -Know much about Al Qaeda? -No. 495 00:24:20,042 --> 00:24:22,628 Have you ever interrogated any sort of terrorist before? 496 00:24:22,712 --> 00:24:26,132 -No. -Any sort of criminal? 497 00:24:26,215 --> 00:24:27,592 No. 498 00:24:27,675 --> 00:24:30,344 Have you ever interrogated anyone before? 499 00:24:30,428 --> 00:24:31,679 It’s not important. 500 00:24:31,762 --> 00:24:35,808 He’s a human; I’m a psychologist. 501 00:24:35,892 --> 00:24:37,643 He knows a secret, 502 00:24:37,727 --> 00:24:42,190 and I’m gonna get him to tell that secret to Gary. 503 00:24:42,273 --> 00:24:44,525 SOUFAN: What-what are you going to do to him that isn’t... 504 00:24:44,609 --> 00:24:46,861 MITCHELL: What am I gonna do? 505 00:24:46,944 --> 00:24:48,571 What is Jim gonna do? 506 00:24:48,654 --> 00:24:51,908 Jim’s gonna do what works. 507 00:24:51,991 --> 00:24:53,910 (heavy metal music blaring) 508 00:24:53,993 --> 00:24:55,995 GUARD 1: Let’s go, shitbird! 509 00:24:56,078 --> 00:24:58,289 (Zubaydah panting) 510 00:25:00,082 --> 00:25:01,876 GUARD 2: Move it, asshole! 511 00:25:01,959 --> 00:25:03,252 (Zubaydah shouts) 512 00:25:03,336 --> 00:25:04,879 ZUBAYDAH: Help! Please! 513 00:25:04,962 --> 00:25:07,048 (Zubaydah shouting) 514 00:25:07,131 --> 00:25:09,508 (heavy metal music continues blaring) 515 00:25:14,347 --> 00:25:16,807 (clippers buzzing) 516 00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:23,064 SOUFAN: You can’t just shave a Muslim man. 517 00:25:23,147 --> 00:25:24,232 Do you know what that means? 518 00:25:24,315 --> 00:25:26,525 He’s going to shut down. 519 00:25:26,609 --> 00:25:29,153 Got to humiliate him, right off the bat. 520 00:25:29,237 --> 00:25:31,113 Same reason we took away his clothes. 521 00:25:31,197 --> 00:25:32,740 Why the loud music? 522 00:25:32,823 --> 00:25:34,575 Sleep deprivation. 523 00:25:34,659 --> 00:25:37,245 We stop the music when he starts talking. 524 00:25:37,328 --> 00:25:38,913 Then he can sleep. 525 00:25:38,996 --> 00:25:40,581 Tired people tell the truth? 526 00:25:40,665 --> 00:25:42,708 Learned helplessness. 527 00:25:42,792 --> 00:25:45,836 You’re familiar with Dr. Martin Seligman? 528 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,381 Seligman did an experiment with dogs. 529 00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,299 He put them in a cage 530 00:25:50,383 --> 00:25:52,927 with a barrier running down the middle. 531 00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:54,637 And one side of the cage was electrified 532 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,264 and the other wasn’t. 533 00:25:56,347 --> 00:25:58,140 At first, when he shocked the dogs, 534 00:25:58,224 --> 00:26:00,142 they’d jump over the barrier to get away. 535 00:26:00,226 --> 00:26:02,436 And then he electrified both sides. 536 00:26:04,021 --> 00:26:05,439 There was no escape. 537 00:26:07,024 --> 00:26:09,402 No belief they could change anything. 538 00:26:09,485 --> 00:26:13,489 He’d open the door to the cage, they wouldn’t even leave. 539 00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:15,032 It’s learned helplessness. 540 00:26:15,116 --> 00:26:17,076 That’s what we’re gonna instill in this man. 541 00:26:17,159 --> 00:26:18,869 You’ll see. 542 00:26:20,246 --> 00:26:22,873 (steady hammering) 543 00:26:25,001 --> 00:26:27,628 SOUFAN: A coffin? You’re gonna kill him? 544 00:26:27,712 --> 00:26:29,922 Let’s call it a confinement box. 545 00:26:30,006 --> 00:26:32,758 I got this one, and I got a smaller one. 546 00:26:32,842 --> 00:26:35,511 And you’re gonna put him in there? 547 00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:40,599 With these, which, based on my evaluation, he hates. 548 00:26:40,683 --> 00:26:42,393 Are you out of your mind? 549 00:26:43,394 --> 00:26:44,979 -We don’t do this. -(hammering) 550 00:26:45,062 --> 00:26:46,522 You know this is against the law. 551 00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:49,150 The most senior people have signed off on it. 552 00:26:49,233 --> 00:26:50,735 We’re putting him on trial. 553 00:26:50,818 --> 00:26:52,903 How are we gonna build a case against him? 554 00:26:54,113 --> 00:26:56,615 Who says he’s getting a trial? 555 00:26:58,492 --> 00:27:01,620 SOUFAN: I wanted to arrest him right there on the spot. 556 00:27:01,704 --> 00:27:04,123 -I told the Bureau that. -What’d they say? 557 00:27:04,206 --> 00:27:06,000 They briefed Director Mueller, 558 00:27:06,083 --> 00:27:09,170 and told me to get the hell out of there, so I did. 559 00:27:09,253 --> 00:27:11,964 -When was that? -Late May, mid-May or... 560 00:27:12,048 --> 00:27:14,592 ’Cause I’m finding records that say that Mitchell left 561 00:27:14,675 --> 00:27:16,552 a little while later, early June, 562 00:27:16,635 --> 00:27:20,181 for R & R and some meetings at headquarters. 563 00:27:20,264 --> 00:27:22,850 But we had one high-value detainee in custody, 564 00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:24,435 Abu Zubaydah. 565 00:27:24,518 --> 00:27:27,063 And after Mitchell left, the CIA put him in isolation, 566 00:27:27,146 --> 00:27:29,815 and didn’t ask him a single question for 47 days. 567 00:27:31,567 --> 00:27:33,527 Are you fucking kidding me? 568 00:27:33,611 --> 00:27:35,738 The whole country was on red alert that summer. 569 00:27:35,821 --> 00:27:37,740 If they were so concerned about the next attack, 570 00:27:37,823 --> 00:27:39,033 why’d they stop asking questions? 571 00:27:39,116 --> 00:27:40,368 Right, it doesn’t make any sense. 572 00:27:40,451 --> 00:27:42,453 Once the psychologist showed up, 573 00:27:42,536 --> 00:27:44,205 almost nothing did anymore. 574 00:27:51,462 --> 00:27:53,631 DANIEL: The CIA said Zubaydah was involved 575 00:27:53,714 --> 00:27:55,758 in every major terrorist operation 576 00:27:55,841 --> 00:27:57,134 carried out by Al Qaeda. 577 00:27:57,218 --> 00:27:58,636 They told the president 578 00:27:58,719 --> 00:28:00,179 he was number three or four in the organization. 579 00:28:00,262 --> 00:28:02,723 Yes, that was my understanding as well. 580 00:28:02,807 --> 00:28:04,975 And the claim that Zubaydah was a major player 581 00:28:05,059 --> 00:28:07,478 was the main justification they gave to the Justice Department 582 00:28:07,561 --> 00:28:09,021 for needing to go harder. 583 00:28:09,105 --> 00:28:10,856 They were certain he knew about the next attack. 584 00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:12,566 But last night I found this. 585 00:28:13,984 --> 00:28:16,487 Turns out Zubaydah wasn’t three or four in the organization. 586 00:28:16,570 --> 00:28:18,823 He wasn’t part of Al Qaeda leadership at all. 587 00:28:18,906 --> 00:28:20,950 They only had one source calling him that, 588 00:28:21,033 --> 00:28:23,327 and that source later admitted he was lying. 589 00:28:23,411 --> 00:28:26,080 So, they exaggerated who he was 590 00:28:26,163 --> 00:28:28,707 to the president and the Department of Justice 591 00:28:28,791 --> 00:28:32,128 in order to get legal approvals for these new techniques? 592 00:28:32,211 --> 00:28:33,671 Is that what you’re saying? 593 00:28:33,754 --> 00:28:36,424 I think that’s a possibility. 594 00:28:36,507 --> 00:28:38,217 The program really starts with him. 595 00:28:39,009 --> 00:28:41,846 (board bangs loudly) 596 00:28:42,930 --> 00:28:45,224 Have you guys used this thing before? 597 00:28:45,307 --> 00:28:47,476 The waterboard? 598 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,270 No, it’s a Navy thing. 599 00:28:49,353 --> 00:28:51,063 But we watched a video. 600 00:28:51,147 --> 00:28:52,648 We tested it on each other, 601 00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:55,276 just to get a feel for the experience. 602 00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,027 Is it safe? 603 00:28:58,612 --> 00:28:59,864 Yes. 604 00:29:05,244 --> 00:29:07,288 (heavy metal music blaring) 605 00:29:07,371 --> 00:29:09,457 ♪ Monarch to the kingdom of the dead... ♪ 606 00:29:09,540 --> 00:29:11,333 (Zubaydah grunting) 607 00:29:11,417 --> 00:29:14,044 MITCHELL (over TV): Who are the operatives inside the U.S.? 608 00:29:14,128 --> 00:29:15,504 ZUBAYDAH (sobs): I don’t know! 609 00:29:15,588 --> 00:29:17,965 -(heavy metal music blaring) -♪ Infamous... ♪ 610 00:29:18,048 --> 00:29:20,050 (Zubaydah grunting) 611 00:29:20,134 --> 00:29:21,677 MITCHELL: When is the next attack? 612 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:22,761 ZUBAYDAH: I don’t know. 613 00:29:22,845 --> 00:29:25,222 (Zubaydah sobbing, pleading) 614 00:29:27,641 --> 00:29:29,977 (Zubaydah panting) 615 00:29:30,060 --> 00:29:31,312 (choking, gasping) 616 00:29:31,395 --> 00:29:35,608 JESSEN: One, two, three, four, five, 617 00:29:35,691 --> 00:29:40,237 six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 618 00:29:40,321 --> 00:29:42,948 -12, 13, 14, -(Zubaydah continues gasping) 619 00:29:43,032 --> 00:29:46,452 15, 16, 17, 18, 620 00:29:46,535 --> 00:29:50,039 19, 20, 21, 22, 621 00:29:50,122 --> 00:29:54,835 23, 24, 25, 26. 622 00:29:54,919 --> 00:29:58,130 (gasping violently, coughing) 623 00:30:01,842 --> 00:30:04,553 MITCHELL: When is the next attack? 624 00:30:04,637 --> 00:30:07,473 Who are the operatives inside the U.S.? 625 00:30:07,556 --> 00:30:09,391 (Zubaydah gasping, coughing) 626 00:30:11,894 --> 00:30:13,854 Anything in that bag contain the real names 627 00:30:13,938 --> 00:30:16,148 of CIA officers, assets or partners, 628 00:30:16,232 --> 00:30:18,609 or any information that would violate the agreement between 629 00:30:18,692 --> 00:30:21,570 the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Senate? 630 00:30:21,654 --> 00:30:23,489 -All good. -All right, good night. 631 00:30:23,572 --> 00:30:25,241 -Have a good night, Jay. -Get home safe. 632 00:30:25,324 --> 00:30:27,409 Good night. 633 00:30:27,493 --> 00:30:29,453 (crickets chirping) 634 00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:42,800 (car alarm chirps) 635 00:30:42,883 --> 00:30:45,052 Dan Jones? 636 00:30:48,264 --> 00:30:49,723 Do I know you? 637 00:30:49,807 --> 00:30:51,892 No, but I think I can help you. 638 00:30:51,976 --> 00:30:54,937 -Help-help me with what? -The EIT program. 639 00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:57,106 That’s what you’re looking into, isn’t it? 640 00:30:59,775 --> 00:31:03,153 I need to know I won’t be named, anywhere. 641 00:31:03,237 --> 00:31:05,030 I’m still with the Agency. 642 00:31:05,114 --> 00:31:08,701 My even being here with you, talking, is... 643 00:31:12,496 --> 00:31:13,872 What was your involvement? 644 00:31:13,956 --> 00:31:17,543 Office of Medical Services, black sites. 645 00:31:17,626 --> 00:31:20,713 -So, you’re a doctor? -Physician’s assistant. 646 00:31:20,796 --> 00:31:22,339 The American Medical Association 647 00:31:22,423 --> 00:31:23,882 won’t allow doctors to be involved. 648 00:31:23,966 --> 00:31:26,302 They take an oath: do no harm. 649 00:31:26,385 --> 00:31:28,554 We’re the next best thing. 650 00:31:28,637 --> 00:31:31,223 I was there when the contractors arrived. 651 00:31:33,309 --> 00:31:35,686 They made tapes of the Abu Zubaydah interrogations, 652 00:31:35,769 --> 00:31:37,187 but there’s a 21-hour period 653 00:31:37,271 --> 00:31:39,231 where the transcripts are missing-- nothing. 654 00:31:39,315 --> 00:31:41,025 They were using the waterboard. 655 00:31:41,108 --> 00:31:43,027 Zubaydah lost consciousness. 656 00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:45,279 He was choking to death, drowning. 657 00:31:45,362 --> 00:31:47,156 Not just thinking he was drowning, 658 00:31:47,239 --> 00:31:48,991 he was actually fucking drowning. 659 00:31:50,909 --> 00:31:52,661 I was told that the waterboard 660 00:31:52,745 --> 00:31:54,913 was only gonna be used as a last resort. 661 00:31:54,997 --> 00:31:57,249 The contractors did an assessment of the prisoner, 662 00:31:57,333 --> 00:31:59,460 -and they made a call... -What kind of assessment? 663 00:31:59,543 --> 00:32:01,378 Th-They bounced him off the walls a few times 664 00:32:01,462 --> 00:32:03,964 and then strapped him down and poured water down his throat. 665 00:32:04,048 --> 00:32:05,966 We understand this is a different approach, 666 00:32:06,050 --> 00:32:08,218 -but it’s based on science. -Science? 667 00:32:08,302 --> 00:32:09,928 Oh, come on. What science? 668 00:32:10,012 --> 00:32:12,097 -Have you seen their science? -They believe the waterboard 669 00:32:12,181 --> 00:32:13,515 is working here to create compliance. 670 00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:14,850 Well, of course they do. 671 00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:17,019 They’re the ones who get to decide when it’s used. 672 00:32:17,102 --> 00:32:19,772 And they’re also the ones who get to decide if it’s working. 673 00:32:19,855 --> 00:32:21,440 How is that even ethical? 674 00:32:21,523 --> 00:32:23,609 The people we’re dealing with weaponized daily life. 675 00:32:23,692 --> 00:32:26,153 Would you like to talk about the ethics of that? 676 00:32:27,071 --> 00:32:28,405 We’re here to make sure 677 00:32:28,489 --> 00:32:30,949 that nothing like that ever happens again. 678 00:32:31,033 --> 00:32:32,451 They’re training their people 679 00:32:32,534 --> 00:32:33,786 to resist traditional interrogations 680 00:32:33,869 --> 00:32:35,120 in the back of a cave somewhere. 681 00:32:35,204 --> 00:32:37,456 So we need to change our approach 682 00:32:37,539 --> 00:32:41,627 before another bomb goes off or another building falls down. 683 00:32:41,710 --> 00:32:43,295 Okay, okay. 684 00:32:43,379 --> 00:32:47,132 What is gonna happen when one of our soldiers gets captured 685 00:32:47,216 --> 00:32:49,885 and takes out a card with the Geneva Convention on it 686 00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,346 and wants to be treated like a human being? 687 00:32:52,429 --> 00:32:54,973 You think his captors aren’t gonna remember 688 00:32:55,057 --> 00:32:56,975 the way these people were treated here? 689 00:32:57,059 --> 00:33:00,062 -And for what? -Do you have a kid at home? 690 00:33:02,898 --> 00:33:05,818 We’re not gonna get beat again. 691 00:33:05,901 --> 00:33:07,152 Besides the chief of station, 692 00:33:07,236 --> 00:33:09,446 did you report your concerns up the chain of command? 693 00:33:09,530 --> 00:33:12,199 We got a cable from Director Rodriguez 694 00:33:12,282 --> 00:33:15,327 telling us to stop putting our objections in writing. 695 00:33:15,411 --> 00:33:17,579 No paper trail. 696 00:33:17,663 --> 00:33:20,833 I told them if they were gonna keep using the new techniques, 697 00:33:20,916 --> 00:33:22,751 I wanted out. 698 00:33:22,835 --> 00:33:25,504 I wasn’t the only one. Guys were choking up. 699 00:33:25,587 --> 00:33:27,923 (car alarm chirps in distance) 700 00:33:28,006 --> 00:33:30,551 -It’s all in the e-mails. -(car door closes in distance) 701 00:33:34,930 --> 00:33:37,057 DANIEL: As early as November 2001, 702 00:33:37,141 --> 00:33:40,144 the CIA’s legal team circulated a memorandum 703 00:33:40,227 --> 00:33:41,770 describing a novel legal defense 704 00:33:41,854 --> 00:33:44,106 for their officers who might engage in torture. 705 00:33:44,189 --> 00:33:46,734 Come on. They actually called it torture? 706 00:33:46,817 --> 00:33:48,277 The CIA? 707 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,404 They just forgot we have laws against that? 708 00:33:50,487 --> 00:33:52,781 Yes, sir. Mitchell and Jessen renamed it 709 00:33:52,865 --> 00:33:54,742 "enhanced interrogation" to help sell it, 710 00:33:54,825 --> 00:33:56,618 but the Agency was talking about doing it 711 00:33:56,702 --> 00:33:58,328 before they even had a single detainee. 712 00:33:59,621 --> 00:34:01,790 My question, Senator, is: How did the CIA know 713 00:34:01,874 --> 00:34:03,667 they needed to torture prisoners 714 00:34:03,751 --> 00:34:05,878 before they even had one? 715 00:34:05,961 --> 00:34:07,796 That didn’t come from Cheney and Addington? 716 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,757 Seems like it happened the other way around. 717 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,760 The CIA took it to the Bush White House 718 00:34:12,843 --> 00:34:14,803 and John Yoo at the Office of Legal Counsel. 719 00:34:14,887 --> 00:34:16,472 YOO: So, here’s where we’re at. 720 00:34:16,555 --> 00:34:19,808 The crime of torture, as described in Section 2340, 721 00:34:19,892 --> 00:34:23,479 requires that the defendant-- in this case, an interrogator-- 722 00:34:23,562 --> 00:34:26,690 intends to cause severe pain or suffering. 723 00:34:26,774 --> 00:34:29,693 But in this case, that’s not the interrogator’s intent. 724 00:34:29,777 --> 00:34:32,946 Right. The intent is to gain intel, save American lives. 725 00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:35,783 RIZZO: But, John, what if the techniques 726 00:34:35,866 --> 00:34:37,534 the interrogator employs do nonetheless 727 00:34:37,618 --> 00:34:39,161 cause pain and suffering? 728 00:34:39,244 --> 00:34:40,788 How do we deal with that? 729 00:34:40,871 --> 00:34:43,874 Well, the key phrase is "severe pain or suffering." 730 00:34:43,957 --> 00:34:46,460 But 2340 never actually defines the term "severe." 731 00:34:46,543 --> 00:34:49,630 We found this definition in a Medicare statute. 732 00:34:49,713 --> 00:34:51,340 Severe pain or suffering: 733 00:34:51,423 --> 00:34:55,427 "acute symptoms that place the individual in serious jeopardy 734 00:34:55,511 --> 00:34:57,721 -and are hard to endure." -Meaning? 735 00:34:57,805 --> 00:35:00,015 To constitute torture, 736 00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:04,728 the damage done must rise to the level of organ failure, 737 00:35:04,812 --> 00:35:09,024 impairment of bodily function, or death. 738 00:35:09,107 --> 00:35:11,568 So, basically, if someone dies, we’re doing it wrong? 739 00:35:11,652 --> 00:35:13,570 If the president deemed it necessary 740 00:35:13,654 --> 00:35:16,532 to... crush the testicles of a child 741 00:35:16,615 --> 00:35:18,617 to stop a plane from crashing into a building, 742 00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:19,993 to save American lives, 743 00:35:20,077 --> 00:35:22,955 there is no law or treaty that could stop him. 744 00:35:23,038 --> 00:35:25,749 I can make the same argument for 745 00:35:25,833 --> 00:35:29,044 gouging out a prisoner’s eyes or dousing him with acid. 746 00:35:30,128 --> 00:35:31,505 In our opinion, 747 00:35:31,588 --> 00:35:36,802 if it provides unique intelligence that saves lives, 748 00:35:36,885 --> 00:35:39,012 and doesn’t cause any lasting harm, 749 00:35:39,096 --> 00:35:41,223 then it’s legal for the president to order it. 750 00:35:41,306 --> 00:35:43,433 What do we mean when we say "unique"? 751 00:35:43,517 --> 00:35:46,144 Intelligence that couldn’t have been obtained any other way. 752 00:35:48,981 --> 00:35:51,358 And you’ve discussed all of this 753 00:35:51,441 --> 00:35:53,235 with the White House, I assume? 754 00:35:53,318 --> 00:35:54,695 WHITEHOUSE: And? 755 00:35:54,778 --> 00:35:57,614 Did they tell Bush what they were gonna do to Zubaydah? 756 00:35:57,698 --> 00:35:59,575 -DANIEL: No. -And National Security Advisor Rice-- 757 00:35:59,658 --> 00:36:01,702 -where was she in all this? -National Security Advisor Rice 758 00:36:01,785 --> 00:36:04,204 was told about the program, but she was also told 759 00:36:04,288 --> 00:36:06,665 the president would not be briefed. 760 00:36:06,748 --> 00:36:08,792 Who tells the president’s national security advisor 761 00:36:08,876 --> 00:36:10,836 not to brief the president? 762 00:36:12,337 --> 00:36:14,756 Cheney and Addington. 763 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,260 According to CIA records, Bush wasn’t told about the program 764 00:36:18,343 --> 00:36:23,223 until April of 2006, four years later. 765 00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:29,229 And the records we found state 766 00:36:29,313 --> 00:36:32,816 that when the president was finally told about the program, 767 00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:36,236 he expressed discomfort with the image of a detainee 768 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,905 chained to the ceiling, wearing a diaper, 769 00:36:37,988 --> 00:36:40,616 and forced to go to the bathroom on himself. 770 00:36:40,699 --> 00:36:44,578 How long till you can get this thing done, Dan? 771 00:36:44,661 --> 00:36:46,663 We’ve got to get this out. 772 00:36:52,085 --> 00:36:54,796 What about this guy, Gul Rahman? 773 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,341 Captured in Peshawar, November 2002. 774 00:36:57,424 --> 00:37:00,594 He’s not at Gitmo. He’s-he’s not anywhere. 775 00:37:06,141 --> 00:37:07,893 DANIEL: Gul Rahman. 776 00:37:07,976 --> 00:37:09,728 Gul... 777 00:37:09,811 --> 00:37:12,606 No. They didn’t tell the committee about him. 778 00:37:12,689 --> 00:37:15,275 He’s detainee number 24. 779 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,783 OFFICER 1: HQ says he knows 780 00:37:22,866 --> 00:37:25,786 operational detail about Al Qaeda. 781 00:37:25,869 --> 00:37:27,496 The guy’s an asshole. 782 00:37:27,579 --> 00:37:30,207 Threw his food at us, he threatened to kill the guards. 783 00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:34,169 I’ve asked headquarters to approve the application 784 00:37:34,252 --> 00:37:36,964 of the enhanced measures for this detainee, 785 00:37:37,047 --> 00:37:38,715 and the request has been approved. 786 00:37:38,799 --> 00:37:42,219 -Oh, great. We haven’t had any luck loosening him up. -Mm. 787 00:37:42,302 --> 00:37:43,845 -Come on! -(men grunting) 788 00:37:43,929 --> 00:37:45,389 OFFICER 2: Ran him up and down the hall, 789 00:37:45,472 --> 00:37:47,849 beat the crap out of him-- nothing. 790 00:37:47,933 --> 00:37:52,229 Even been trying this thing they call short shackling. 791 00:37:52,312 --> 00:37:54,564 Chain a dude’s hands to a bolt on the floor. 792 00:37:54,648 --> 00:37:56,233 (heavy metal music blaring) 793 00:37:56,316 --> 00:37:58,777 Then you chain his feet to the same bolt. 794 00:37:58,860 --> 00:38:01,571 Farmers call it hog-tying, I think. 795 00:38:01,655 --> 00:38:04,116 He finally admitted to something. 796 00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:05,450 What was that? 797 00:38:05,534 --> 00:38:09,621 That he was who we said he was: Gul Rahman. 798 00:38:11,915 --> 00:38:17,337 What you want to do first is take away his sense of control. 799 00:38:17,421 --> 00:38:19,840 If you like, I could spend some time showing you 800 00:38:19,923 --> 00:38:23,010 how to achieve this with the enhanced techniques. 801 00:38:24,594 --> 00:38:25,887 Great. 802 00:38:25,971 --> 00:38:29,141 We got another 30 guys here to deal with. 803 00:38:29,224 --> 00:38:30,851 (heavy metal music blaring) 804 00:38:30,934 --> 00:38:34,604 I heard you told the doctor you were cold. 805 00:38:34,688 --> 00:38:37,774 (Rahman screaming) 806 00:38:37,858 --> 00:38:39,234 ♪ The beautiful people ♪ 807 00:38:39,317 --> 00:38:41,194 -♪ The beautiful people ♪ -♪ Ah ♪ 808 00:38:41,278 --> 00:38:42,779 ♪ The beautiful people ♪ 809 00:38:42,863 --> 00:38:44,114 -♪ The beautiful people ♪ -♪ Ah... ♪ 810 00:38:44,197 --> 00:38:46,575 (footsteps approaching) 811 00:38:46,658 --> 00:38:48,827 (phone ringing) 812 00:38:53,081 --> 00:38:55,417 Senator, do you have a few minutes this morning? 813 00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:58,295 FEINSTEIN: Absolutely. Come on in, Dan. 814 00:38:58,378 --> 00:39:00,964 SECRETARY: The senator is needed on the floor for a vote. 815 00:39:01,048 --> 00:39:02,883 MORRIS: Uh, give her five minutes. 816 00:39:04,551 --> 00:39:06,928 FEINSTEIN: Did you sleep last night, Dan? 817 00:39:10,057 --> 00:39:12,309 Uh, Senator, a prisoner died. 818 00:39:12,392 --> 00:39:14,019 -(heavy metal music blaring) -♪ There’s no time ♪ 819 00:39:14,102 --> 00:39:16,772 ♪ To discriminate, hate every motherfucker ♪ 820 00:39:16,855 --> 00:39:18,065 ♪ That’s in your... ♪ 821 00:39:18,148 --> 00:39:20,609 Gul Rahman. 822 00:39:20,692 --> 00:39:23,070 They thought he was maybe working for an Afghan warlord 823 00:39:23,153 --> 00:39:24,988 or that he knew something about an attack. 824 00:39:25,072 --> 00:39:26,865 -Did he? -No, he died before they found out 825 00:39:26,948 --> 00:39:28,825 anything besides his name. 826 00:39:28,909 --> 00:39:30,410 Dumped cold water on him one night 827 00:39:30,494 --> 00:39:32,412 and found him dead in his cell in the morning. 828 00:39:32,496 --> 00:39:33,997 The autopsy said hypothermia. 829 00:39:34,081 --> 00:39:37,250 -Where did you get this from? -Inspector general’s report. 830 00:39:37,334 --> 00:39:41,713 CIA did their own investigation into the death of Gul Rahman. 831 00:39:43,882 --> 00:39:45,592 The officer in charge was recommended 832 00:39:45,675 --> 00:39:47,260 for a performance bonus. 833 00:39:47,344 --> 00:39:48,595 They promoted him. 834 00:39:48,678 --> 00:39:50,680 He’s still out there in the field. 835 00:39:55,102 --> 00:39:58,814 Well, are you accusing the CIA of murder, Dan? 836 00:40:00,690 --> 00:40:03,026 Because that sounds like where this is going. 837 00:40:03,110 --> 00:40:04,903 We have proof the deputy director 838 00:40:04,986 --> 00:40:08,031 coached the officer in charge how to cover up what happened, 839 00:40:08,115 --> 00:40:10,534 told him to be careful what he put in writing. 840 00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:13,870 So, why would they need to cover it up 841 00:40:13,954 --> 00:40:15,914 if they were following standard operating procedure? 842 00:40:16,998 --> 00:40:18,542 Why didn’t they tell the committee? 843 00:40:18,625 --> 00:40:20,877 Why didn’t they tell you? 844 00:40:25,048 --> 00:40:27,551 I’m gonna need to review all this personally. 845 00:40:29,136 --> 00:40:30,554 It’s very disconcerting. 846 00:40:37,102 --> 00:40:38,979 (door closes) 847 00:40:39,062 --> 00:40:41,606 "Disconcerting"? "Very disconcerting"? 848 00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:43,358 Dan, you need to be careful here. 849 00:40:43,441 --> 00:40:45,861 You’re getting emotionally involved. 850 00:40:45,944 --> 00:40:48,989 They fucking killed a guy, and nobody was held accountable? 851 00:40:50,574 --> 00:40:52,325 W-We don’t know he was a terrorist. 852 00:40:52,409 --> 00:40:55,287 -We barely even know his name. -I understand. 853 00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:57,164 And what you need to understand is that 854 00:40:57,247 --> 00:41:00,167 her name is going on this report, not yours. 855 00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:02,043 Senate staff doesn’t have to run for reelection, 856 00:41:02,127 --> 00:41:03,545 but she does. 857 00:41:03,628 --> 00:41:06,882 Their legal argument said EITs wouldn’t cause lasting harm. 858 00:41:06,965 --> 00:41:09,718 So how long is Gul Rahman gonna be dead for? 859 00:41:19,269 --> 00:41:21,521 Are you guys seeing this Panetta review? 860 00:41:21,605 --> 00:41:23,190 It just showed up. 861 00:41:25,066 --> 00:41:26,443 JULIAN: I don’t understand. 862 00:41:26,526 --> 00:41:29,362 Looks like the CIA did their own investigation. 863 00:41:29,446 --> 00:41:32,032 It confirms everything we’ve been finding. 864 00:41:37,287 --> 00:41:41,333 APRIL: So, what are you gonna do with it? 865 00:41:41,416 --> 00:41:43,376 DANIEL: Hopefully, nothing. 866 00:41:43,460 --> 00:41:45,670 Special Prosecutor Durham, please? 867 00:41:45,754 --> 00:41:48,423 I’ve already left several messages. 868 00:41:48,506 --> 00:41:50,634 It’s Dan Jones again from the Intelligence Committee. 869 00:41:50,717 --> 00:41:51,968 How are you? 870 00:41:52,052 --> 00:41:54,346 Good. I just wanted to check in again to see 871 00:41:54,429 --> 00:41:56,014 if the special prosecutor is available 872 00:41:56,097 --> 00:41:57,599 to meet on the CIA probe. 873 00:41:59,059 --> 00:42:01,937 It can be off the record. I just want to compare notes. 874 00:42:04,522 --> 00:42:06,316 Yeah, same number. Thank you. 875 00:42:10,445 --> 00:42:12,155 MARC THIESSEN (over TV): You know, we got to think back 876 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,365 to the period after 9/11. 877 00:42:13,448 --> 00:42:14,908 We didn’t even know who hit us. 878 00:42:14,991 --> 00:42:16,284 We didn’t know that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was 879 00:42:16,368 --> 00:42:17,661 the mastermind of 9/11 880 00:42:17,744 --> 00:42:19,329 or the operational commander of Al Qaeda. 881 00:42:19,412 --> 00:42:20,872 And then we started rounding up these terrorists. 882 00:42:20,956 --> 00:42:22,207 We caught Abu Zubaydah. 883 00:42:22,290 --> 00:42:24,292 We caught, uh, Ramzi bin al-Shibh and KSM. 884 00:42:24,376 --> 00:42:26,795 And these guys provided us information under questioning 885 00:42:26,878 --> 00:42:30,257 by the CIA that stopped a number of terrorist attacks. 886 00:42:30,340 --> 00:42:31,800 They were pl-planning to blow up 887 00:42:31,883 --> 00:42:33,385 the U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan. 888 00:42:33,468 --> 00:42:35,011 -JULIAN: Shit. -They were planning to blow up 889 00:42:35,095 --> 00:42:36,137 our Marine camp in Djibouti... 890 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,562 -Good morning. -Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was 891 00:42:44,646 --> 00:42:49,401 indicted in New York for trying to blow up airplanes in 1995. 892 00:42:49,484 --> 00:42:50,902 The CIA already knew about him. 893 00:42:50,986 --> 00:42:52,654 They knew he was close to bin Laden. 894 00:42:52,737 --> 00:42:54,281 They knew about him before Zubaydah ever identified him. 895 00:42:54,364 --> 00:42:55,740 How long have you been here? 896 00:42:55,824 --> 00:42:57,659 Also, according to this cable-- a few hours-- 897 00:42:57,742 --> 00:42:59,244 a CIA officer in Islamabad 898 00:42:59,327 --> 00:43:01,204 began working someone they call Asset X. 899 00:43:01,288 --> 00:43:04,874 X claimed to have direct access to KSM, 900 00:43:04,958 --> 00:43:07,294 but was eventually turned away when he asked for money. 901 00:43:08,378 --> 00:43:10,755 -How much money? -Few thousand bucks. 902 00:43:10,839 --> 00:43:13,133 Two years later, after they’ve been putting him off, 903 00:43:13,216 --> 00:43:15,510 putting him off, putting him off, they finally pay him, 904 00:43:15,593 --> 00:43:17,095 and almost immediately he sends a text 905 00:43:17,178 --> 00:43:19,639 to his CIA handler saying: "I’m with KSM." 906 00:43:19,723 --> 00:43:22,225 It had nothing to do with the waterboard. 907 00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:24,894 -Good morning. -Good morning. 908 00:43:41,161 --> 00:43:43,830 -("Yankee Doodle" blaring) -JESSEN: One, two, three, 909 00:43:43,913 --> 00:43:46,082 -four, five, six... -(Mohammed choking) 910 00:43:46,166 --> 00:43:48,626 MITCHELL: Who are you working with in the U.S.? 911 00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:51,838 JESSEN: ...seven, eight, nine, 10, 11... 912 00:43:51,921 --> 00:43:53,882 We have your kids! 913 00:43:53,965 --> 00:43:56,551 -...12, 13, 14, 15, -♪ Yankee Doodle, keep it up ♪ 914 00:43:56,634 --> 00:43:58,511 -16, 17... -♪ Yankee Doodle dandy... ♪ 915 00:43:58,595 --> 00:44:01,264 It will stop if you talk! 916 00:44:01,348 --> 00:44:04,559 ♪ And with the girls be handy, Yankee Doodle... ♪ 917 00:44:04,642 --> 00:44:06,770 Where is the next attack? 918 00:44:06,853 --> 00:44:08,104 (muffled): Canary Wharf! Canary Wharf! 919 00:44:08,188 --> 00:44:09,939 ♪ Stuck a feather in ♪ 920 00:44:10,023 --> 00:44:11,608 (faintly): ♪ His hat and called it... ♪ 921 00:44:11,691 --> 00:44:12,859 BERNADETTE: Okay, here’s the problem. 922 00:44:12,942 --> 00:44:14,527 We already know about 923 00:44:14,611 --> 00:44:16,738 the Heathrow and Canary Wharf plots. 924 00:44:16,821 --> 00:44:19,407 He knows that. It’s in his goddamn notebook. 925 00:44:19,491 --> 00:44:21,701 We asked about plots in the U.S., not London. 926 00:44:21,785 --> 00:44:24,120 -He’s fucking with you again. -JESSEN: To be honest, 927 00:44:24,204 --> 00:44:27,165 I’ve never met a resistor like this guy. 928 00:44:27,248 --> 00:44:28,750 He’s a super resistor. 929 00:44:28,833 --> 00:44:30,502 He lied to you to make you stop. 930 00:44:30,585 --> 00:44:32,670 GRETCHEN: He just tells us shit he knows we already have. 931 00:44:32,754 --> 00:44:34,089 That’s all he does. 932 00:44:34,172 --> 00:44:36,716 MITCHELL: Then that’s what we’re learning. 933 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,387 That’s what the waterboard is giving us. 934 00:44:41,971 --> 00:44:44,724 We now know he’s lying. 935 00:44:44,808 --> 00:44:46,851 I thought it was meant to give us the truth. 936 00:44:46,935 --> 00:44:50,855 And... the truth is he’s lying. 937 00:44:58,196 --> 00:45:01,199 Headquarters says we go again. 938 00:45:02,492 --> 00:45:04,160 DANIEL: The chief of interrogations 939 00:45:04,244 --> 00:45:06,579 ordered the rectal rehydration of KSM, 940 00:45:06,663 --> 00:45:08,415 not for health reasons, 941 00:45:08,498 --> 00:45:10,792 but as a way of showing total control over the detainee. 942 00:45:10,875 --> 00:45:13,753 Even though rectal rehydration was never 943 00:45:13,837 --> 00:45:15,672 -an approved technique. -(Mohammed grunting in pain) 944 00:45:15,755 --> 00:45:17,590 Total control isn’t chaining the guy to the wall, 945 00:45:17,674 --> 00:45:19,509 keeping him awake for days, and threatening his family? 946 00:45:19,592 --> 00:45:21,219 You need to shove a tube up his ass? 947 00:45:21,302 --> 00:45:22,846 -(monitor beeping) -MITCHELL: This right here 948 00:45:22,929 --> 00:45:24,472 is the rest of your life 949 00:45:24,556 --> 00:45:26,599 -unless you start telling the truth. -(gagging) 950 00:45:26,683 --> 00:45:28,184 Then they went back to waterboarding him. 951 00:45:28,268 --> 00:45:29,853 "When a medical officer pressed on KSM’s..." 952 00:45:29,936 --> 00:45:31,563 -Wait. Where are you? -Next page. 953 00:45:31,646 --> 00:45:33,648 "When a medical officer pressed on KSM’s abdomen, 954 00:45:33,731 --> 00:45:35,692 he expressed water from his mouth and nose." 955 00:45:35,775 --> 00:45:37,694 So, he was swallowing all the water. 956 00:45:37,777 --> 00:45:39,028 DANIEL: "On March 17th, 957 00:45:39,112 --> 00:45:40,864 the waterboard technique began to evolve." 958 00:45:40,947 --> 00:45:43,241 (muffled shout) 959 00:45:43,324 --> 00:45:45,243 Interrogators used their hands to maintain 960 00:45:45,326 --> 00:45:48,246 a pool of water over KSM’s nose and mouth. 961 00:45:49,497 --> 00:45:51,875 (board knocking) 962 00:45:53,668 --> 00:45:56,504 (Mohammed grunting, choking in distance) 963 00:45:56,588 --> 00:45:58,631 (Mohammed gasping violently) 964 00:45:58,715 --> 00:46:02,010 MITCHELL: Who are the operatives inside the U.S.? 965 00:46:02,093 --> 00:46:04,762 (panting): Issa... Issa... 966 00:46:04,846 --> 00:46:06,806 Issa al-Britani. 967 00:46:08,391 --> 00:46:09,851 JESSEN: Where is the next attack? 968 00:46:09,934 --> 00:46:11,686 M-Montana. 969 00:46:11,769 --> 00:46:13,104 (Mohammed panting) 970 00:46:13,188 --> 00:46:15,482 We got something. 971 00:46:17,734 --> 00:46:20,862 KSM told interrogators he sent Abu Issa al-Britani to the U.S. 972 00:46:20,945 --> 00:46:24,115 to recruit African American Muslims in Montana 973 00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:26,117 to blow up gas stations and start forest fires. 974 00:46:26,201 --> 00:46:27,202 Montana? 975 00:46:27,285 --> 00:46:29,412 Muslims in Montana? 976 00:46:29,496 --> 00:46:31,831 The FBI had serious doubts as well. 977 00:46:31,915 --> 00:46:34,334 Later, KSM admitted he just told them 978 00:46:34,417 --> 00:46:36,794 what they wanted to hear to make it stop. 979 00:46:36,878 --> 00:46:40,632 So, did they get anything actionable from him at all? 980 00:46:40,715 --> 00:46:42,175 Anything that saved lives? 981 00:46:42,258 --> 00:46:45,595 They waterboarded him 183 times, and then concluded 982 00:46:45,678 --> 00:46:47,764 KSM may never be forthcoming or honest. 983 00:46:47,847 --> 00:46:49,599 Everything they got from him 984 00:46:49,682 --> 00:46:52,769 was either a lie or something they already had. 985 00:46:52,852 --> 00:46:55,522 Well, okay, so my first question is: 986 00:46:55,605 --> 00:46:59,859 If it works, why do you need to do it 183 times? 987 00:47:00,944 --> 00:47:02,320 Maybe when the report comes out, 988 00:47:02,403 --> 00:47:04,030 people will finally see that. 989 00:47:04,113 --> 00:47:07,367 Well, let’s worry about getting it right, getting it done. 990 00:47:07,450 --> 00:47:09,827 We can worry about changing the world later. 991 00:47:13,831 --> 00:47:16,167 (birds chirping) 992 00:47:24,467 --> 00:47:26,261 (sighs) Sorry I’m late. 993 00:47:26,344 --> 00:47:28,388 -It’s okay. -(sighs) 994 00:47:28,471 --> 00:47:31,099 -Barely slept. -Want some coffee? 995 00:47:31,182 --> 00:47:32,850 (sighs) 996 00:47:34,602 --> 00:47:36,521 Hey, can I ask you something? 997 00:47:36,604 --> 00:47:38,856 You ever, uh, have dreams, 998 00:47:38,940 --> 00:47:41,568 you know, about the stuff that’s in the report? 999 00:47:43,069 --> 00:47:45,905 Yeah. I have one where I’m drowning. 1000 00:47:45,989 --> 00:47:48,366 I can’t move my arms or legs. I can’t breathe. 1001 00:47:48,449 --> 00:47:50,743 -That wakes me up. -Last night I dreamt 1002 00:47:50,827 --> 00:47:53,705 I was trapped in one of those confinement boxes. 1003 00:47:53,788 --> 00:47:55,540 They just left me there. 1004 00:47:55,623 --> 00:47:58,167 Daniel Jones, right? 1005 00:47:58,251 --> 00:48:00,628 -Do I know you? -I just wanted to tell you to your face 1006 00:48:00,712 --> 00:48:02,755 that I think you and that report are garbage. 1007 00:48:02,839 --> 00:48:04,507 -Excuse me... -You weren’t there, 1008 00:48:04,591 --> 00:48:06,467 so you don’t know what worked and what didn’t 1009 00:48:06,551 --> 00:48:07,719 or what we were up against. 1010 00:48:07,802 --> 00:48:09,512 You may not realize, but we were trying 1011 00:48:09,596 --> 00:48:11,764 to protect this country from people who want to destroy 1012 00:48:11,848 --> 00:48:13,141 everything we believe in. 1013 00:48:13,224 --> 00:48:15,059 You may not realize it, 1014 00:48:15,143 --> 00:48:17,437 but we’re trying to do the exact same thing. 1015 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,940 Your bullshit report will never see the light of day. 1016 00:48:24,986 --> 00:48:27,113 DANIEL: Special Prosecutor Durham, please. 1017 00:48:27,196 --> 00:48:29,282 It’s Dan Jones, calling again 1018 00:48:29,365 --> 00:48:32,285 about the Justice Department investigation of the CIA. 1019 00:48:32,368 --> 00:48:34,078 We really need to meet. 1020 00:48:35,663 --> 00:48:37,123 You have? 1021 00:48:38,708 --> 00:48:40,960 Okay, what are their findings? 1022 00:48:51,304 --> 00:48:53,139 Fuck! 1023 00:48:53,222 --> 00:48:55,016 WHITEHOUSE: Nothing? 1024 00:48:55,099 --> 00:48:56,601 No indictments at all? 1025 00:48:56,684 --> 00:48:58,770 No charges against Jose Rodriguez or Gina Haspel 1026 00:48:58,853 --> 00:49:00,229 for destroying the tapes. 1027 00:49:00,313 --> 00:49:02,523 Nothing against the CIA for torturing people. 1028 00:49:02,607 --> 00:49:04,108 Nothing against Jim Pavitt and the others 1029 00:49:04,192 --> 00:49:06,402 for providing misinformation, nothing at all. 1030 00:49:06,486 --> 00:49:08,655 DOJ says they don’t have enough admissible evidence 1031 00:49:08,738 --> 00:49:10,698 to convict anyone. 1032 00:49:10,782 --> 00:49:12,742 You go after the contractors, and they’re indemnified. 1033 00:49:12,825 --> 00:49:14,202 You go after the head of Counterterrorism, 1034 00:49:14,285 --> 00:49:15,995 and he’d just say he was following orders 1035 00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:17,205 from the CIA director. 1036 00:49:17,288 --> 00:49:18,581 You go after the director, and he-- 1037 00:49:18,665 --> 00:49:20,208 well, he would just cite the president. 1038 00:49:20,291 --> 00:49:21,793 Then the White House would claim national security. 1039 00:49:21,876 --> 00:49:24,796 DOJ at least share what they found? 1040 00:49:24,879 --> 00:49:25,922 No. 1041 00:49:28,007 --> 00:49:30,551 They won’t turn anything over. 1042 00:49:32,220 --> 00:49:33,971 We’re the only ones still looking at this. 1043 00:49:36,474 --> 00:49:38,768 (crickets chirping) 1044 00:49:52,073 --> 00:49:53,908 APRIL: Dan? 1045 00:49:55,493 --> 00:49:56,494 Dan? 1046 00:49:56,577 --> 00:49:58,454 You know a CIA officer 1047 00:49:58,538 --> 00:50:00,748 testified before Congress in 1978 regarding the use of 1048 00:50:00,832 --> 00:50:03,960 coercive physical interrogation techniques in Latin America? 1049 00:50:04,043 --> 00:50:05,837 And the officer said the techniques result 1050 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,214 in false answers and have proven to be ineffective. 1051 00:50:08,297 --> 00:50:09,757 And before Latin America, they did it in Vietnam. 1052 00:50:09,841 --> 00:50:10,842 They knew it didn’t work... 1053 00:50:10,925 --> 00:50:12,176 Dan, I need to tell you something. 1054 00:50:12,260 --> 00:50:13,720 ...and they did it again. 1055 00:50:13,803 --> 00:50:14,804 Don’t even listen to their own fucking people. 1056 00:50:14,887 --> 00:50:16,305 I’m leaving the study. 1057 00:50:16,389 --> 00:50:20,351 I... I got a job offer, and I can’t turn it down. 1058 00:50:20,435 --> 00:50:23,896 I’m sorry, but don’t you see what this is doing to you? 1059 00:50:23,980 --> 00:50:25,148 To all of us? 1060 00:50:25,231 --> 00:50:26,941 I mean, my kids are at home growing up, 1061 00:50:27,024 --> 00:50:30,153 and I’m down here reading about how they put a power drill 1062 00:50:30,236 --> 00:50:31,863 against one guy’s head and-and how they pulled 1063 00:50:31,946 --> 00:50:33,489 another guy’s arms out of his sockets. 1064 00:50:33,573 --> 00:50:35,408 And I just-- this is how I’m spending my Sundays. 1065 00:50:35,491 --> 00:50:37,034 And my Saturdays. 1066 00:50:37,118 --> 00:50:39,746 This is how I spend every day. 1067 00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:42,999 I just-- I-I-I-I can’t. 1068 00:50:43,082 --> 00:50:47,128 Um... I’m gonna leave after Thanksgiving. 1069 00:50:53,217 --> 00:50:55,178 Okay. I understand. 1070 00:50:55,261 --> 00:50:56,804 Okay. 1071 00:50:56,888 --> 00:50:58,264 Thanksgiving. 1072 00:50:58,347 --> 00:51:01,517 That gives us... that gives us a couple months. 1073 00:51:01,601 --> 00:51:04,937 JULIAN: Dan, it’s November. 1074 00:51:05,021 --> 00:51:07,774 Thanksgiving is next week. 1075 00:51:09,692 --> 00:51:12,862 APRIL: How many pages have we written so far? Thousands? 1076 00:51:12,945 --> 00:51:16,324 We don’t even know if this is ever gonna come out. 1077 00:51:16,407 --> 00:51:18,826 The tapes investigation never did. 1078 00:51:18,910 --> 00:51:20,411 It’s still classified. 1079 00:51:20,495 --> 00:51:22,038 You just said it yourself: 1080 00:51:22,121 --> 00:51:24,499 The CIA knew this shit didn’t work in 1978, 1081 00:51:24,582 --> 00:51:27,001 and it didn’t stop them from doing it again. 1082 00:51:28,586 --> 00:51:30,922 Look, we’ve been down here for two years, Dan, 1083 00:51:31,005 --> 00:51:33,633 in this basement. 1084 00:51:33,716 --> 00:51:36,511 Nobody’s waiting for us to come out. 1085 00:51:58,282 --> 00:52:00,409 (typing) 1086 00:52:14,507 --> 00:52:16,759 ...shocking photos that apparently show U.S. troops 1087 00:52:16,843 --> 00:52:19,804 abusing detainees in a prison outside Baghdad. 1088 00:52:19,887 --> 00:52:21,347 We have a problem. 1089 00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:23,891 Both myself and the president have gone on record 1090 00:52:23,975 --> 00:52:26,310 saying we do not torture people. 1091 00:52:26,394 --> 00:52:29,355 He just made a statement for the U.N.’s goddamn 1092 00:52:29,438 --> 00:52:32,483 Day in Support of Victims of Torture. 1093 00:52:32,567 --> 00:52:34,777 Wh-What-what did he say? 1094 00:52:37,321 --> 00:52:39,615 "The United States does not torture. 1095 00:52:39,699 --> 00:52:42,994 It’s against our laws and it’s against our values. 1096 00:52:43,077 --> 00:52:48,416 I have not authorized it, and I will not authorize it." 1097 00:52:50,334 --> 00:52:53,379 I’m not sure where that leaves either of us. 1098 00:52:53,462 --> 00:52:55,506 RODRIGUEZ: So, here’s the deal. 1099 00:52:55,590 --> 00:52:59,093 Some new lawyer over at OLC, Jack Goldsmith, 1100 00:52:59,176 --> 00:53:01,679 is saying there are issues with the John Yoo memo. 1101 00:53:01,762 --> 00:53:03,139 Legal issues? 1102 00:53:03,222 --> 00:53:05,474 Yeah, and there’s the inspector general’s report: 1103 00:53:05,558 --> 00:53:08,185 allegations of war crimes and torture. 1104 00:53:08,269 --> 00:53:11,564 RODRIGUEZ: Throws the whole program under the goddamn bus. 1105 00:53:11,647 --> 00:53:13,274 What’s it say? 1106 00:53:13,357 --> 00:53:17,069 "The inspector general finds that EITs are inconsistent 1107 00:53:17,153 --> 00:53:18,613 with the public policy positions 1108 00:53:18,696 --> 00:53:22,116 the United States has taken regarding human rights," 1109 00:53:22,199 --> 00:53:23,993 blah, blah, blah. 1110 00:53:24,076 --> 00:53:26,078 "The program, as implemented, 1111 00:53:26,162 --> 00:53:30,958 diverges sharply from how the CIA has described," blah, blah. 1112 00:53:31,042 --> 00:53:33,878 "There is also little evidence that the waterboard 1113 00:53:33,961 --> 00:53:36,756 is effective in gaining information." 1114 00:53:36,839 --> 00:53:39,550 Look, guys, Director Tenet wants to pause the program. 1115 00:53:41,636 --> 00:53:44,013 You know, I retired from the Air Force 1116 00:53:44,096 --> 00:53:47,558 just a couple of months before 9/11. 1117 00:53:47,642 --> 00:53:49,310 22 years. 1118 00:53:50,895 --> 00:53:53,522 And then I wake up that morning, 1119 00:53:53,606 --> 00:53:59,946 and I turn on the news and... see what’s happening. 1120 00:54:01,572 --> 00:54:06,577 A lot of people just went back to their coffee and cornflakes. 1121 00:54:06,661 --> 00:54:10,831 But Jim wanted to do something 1122 00:54:10,915 --> 00:54:13,501 to keep people safe. 1123 00:54:13,584 --> 00:54:16,671 We are going right back to the National Security Council today 1124 00:54:16,754 --> 00:54:18,714 and asking to have the program recertified, 1125 00:54:18,798 --> 00:54:20,508 as many techniques as possible. 1126 00:54:20,591 --> 00:54:22,885 RODRIGUEZ: We have a plan. 1127 00:54:22,969 --> 00:54:24,971 Thank you. Thank you. 1128 00:54:30,726 --> 00:54:35,356 -(phone ringing) -(typing) 1129 00:54:35,439 --> 00:54:37,650 (phone continues ringing) 1130 00:54:44,865 --> 00:54:46,158 Jones. 1131 00:54:47,243 --> 00:54:48,411 Yes, Senator. 1132 00:54:56,711 --> 00:54:57,920 (TV clicks on) 1133 00:54:58,004 --> 00:54:59,338 NEWS ANCHOR: On the Sunday talk shows, 1134 00:54:59,422 --> 00:55:01,007 former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld 1135 00:55:01,090 --> 00:55:03,134 and former Vice President Dick Cheney 1136 00:55:03,217 --> 00:55:06,804 argued enhanced interrogation techniques played a major role 1137 00:55:06,887 --> 00:55:09,265 in leading up to the raid on bin Laden’s compound. 1138 00:55:09,348 --> 00:55:11,308 No, that’s not right. That’s not what happened. 1139 00:55:11,392 --> 00:55:13,227 -CHENEY: It was not torture. -I’ll look into it. 1140 00:55:13,310 --> 00:55:15,563 And, uh, I would strongly recommend that we continue it. 1141 00:55:15,646 --> 00:55:17,356 NEWS ANCHOR: At the heart of the controversy 1142 00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,859 is a process called waterboarding. 1143 00:55:19,942 --> 00:55:21,861 (keypad beeping) 1144 00:55:21,944 --> 00:55:24,238 DANIEL: Okay, here’s what the CIA is claiming: 1145 00:55:24,321 --> 00:55:28,576 They got bin Laden after using EITs against detainees. 1146 00:55:30,870 --> 00:55:36,208 They say it all started in 2002 with Abu Zubaydah 1147 00:55:36,292 --> 00:55:39,587 and a detainee they called "Riyadh the Facilitator," 1148 00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:41,881 who tipped them off to Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, 1149 00:55:41,964 --> 00:55:43,174 who had ties to bin Laden. 1150 00:55:43,257 --> 00:55:44,884 That’s not what happened? 1151 00:55:44,967 --> 00:55:47,470 The truth is the CIA was on al-Kuwaiti’s phones, 1152 00:55:47,553 --> 00:55:51,182 e-mails, identity, long before they captured any detainees. 1153 00:55:51,265 --> 00:55:56,103 Before they even had an EIT program. 1154 00:55:56,187 --> 00:55:58,647 Zubaydah told us al-Kuwaiti had nothing to do with bin Laden. 1155 00:55:58,731 --> 00:56:01,525 Same with KSM and-and the others. 1156 00:56:01,609 --> 00:56:04,612 But now we have former CIA Director Michael Hayden 1157 00:56:04,695 --> 00:56:07,239 on the radio saying this all came from EITs. 1158 00:56:07,323 --> 00:56:09,909 And former Attorney General Mukasey is out there saying 1159 00:56:09,992 --> 00:56:12,078 KSM broke like a dam after waterboarding. 1160 00:56:12,161 --> 00:56:13,621 FEINSTEIN: Where is he saying that? 1161 00:56:13,704 --> 00:56:16,123 DANIEL: Wall Street Journal. I found a memo. 1162 00:56:16,207 --> 00:56:17,833 It’s from a few months back, in March. 1163 00:56:17,917 --> 00:56:19,335 It’s called "The Public Roll-out." 1164 00:56:19,418 --> 00:56:22,713 The memo states the Agency wanted their PR people 1165 00:56:22,797 --> 00:56:26,801 to connect the bin Laden raid to intel obtained via EITs 1166 00:56:26,884 --> 00:56:28,177 before it even happened. 1167 00:56:28,260 --> 00:56:32,306 So... if the CIA got bin Laden, 1168 00:56:32,389 --> 00:56:35,226 then who cares what else it did? 1169 00:56:35,309 --> 00:56:38,187 If it saved lives, there’s no need for accountability. 1170 00:56:38,270 --> 00:56:40,481 Exactly. They lied to Bush about the program. 1171 00:56:40,564 --> 00:56:42,316 Now they’re lying to President Obama. 1172 00:56:42,399 --> 00:56:46,112 This document about bin Laden and, uh, the role of EITs, 1173 00:56:46,195 --> 00:56:48,030 it just isn’t true. 1174 00:56:54,745 --> 00:56:57,540 You want me to get you the White House? 1175 00:56:59,375 --> 00:57:00,918 Let’s do that. 1176 00:57:03,504 --> 00:57:05,631 FEINSTEIN: It’s very clear to us 1177 00:57:05,714 --> 00:57:09,635 the EITs did not lead to bin Laden. 1178 00:57:09,718 --> 00:57:12,346 The CIA is misrepresenting the operation. 1179 00:57:12,429 --> 00:57:14,306 I’m sure you see that, don’t you? 1180 00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:16,725 McDONOUGH (over phone): I’m not sure I understand, Senator. 1181 00:57:16,809 --> 00:57:18,769 The mission was a success; that’s the headline here. 1182 00:57:18,853 --> 00:57:22,231 This is a crucial moment in our nation’s history. 1183 00:57:22,314 --> 00:57:26,819 I want to make certain that the Agency isn’t manipulating it 1184 00:57:26,902 --> 00:57:30,197 to sanitize their own past actions. 1185 00:57:30,281 --> 00:57:32,116 I will let the national security advisor 1186 00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:34,285 know your concerns, Senator. 1187 00:57:34,368 --> 00:57:36,704 -Thank you. -Thank you, Senator Feinstein. 1188 00:57:36,787 --> 00:57:37,997 (line clicks) 1189 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,291 -(phone clicks) -DANIEL: That’s it? 1190 00:57:40,374 --> 00:57:42,668 They don’t care the story is wrong? 1191 00:57:44,295 --> 00:57:48,257 Well, I don’t think we can look to the White House for support. 1192 00:57:52,261 --> 00:57:55,681 (door opens, closes) 1193 00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:58,976 What the hell just happened? 1194 00:57:59,059 --> 00:58:02,354 The CIA just got the president reelected. 1195 00:58:02,438 --> 00:58:04,231 That’s what happened. 1196 00:58:07,651 --> 00:58:10,988 MARTHA RADDATZ: It was the greatest manhunt of all time. 1197 00:58:11,071 --> 00:58:13,616 (over TV): You think you know the story, 1198 00:58:13,699 --> 00:58:15,618 but hold on to your seats. 1199 00:58:15,701 --> 00:58:18,787 Zero Dark Thirty, the riveting new film, 1200 00:58:18,871 --> 00:58:21,457 brings you the hunt for Osama bin Laden 1201 00:58:21,540 --> 00:58:24,168 as it has never been seen before. 1202 00:58:39,183 --> 00:58:41,268 This is it. The last guy we have. 1203 00:58:41,352 --> 00:58:47,524 Number 119: Muhammad Rahim, captured June 2007. 1204 00:58:57,076 --> 00:58:58,744 MITCHELL: We kept Rahim awake 1205 00:58:58,827 --> 00:59:00,913 for 138 hours straight. 1206 00:59:00,996 --> 00:59:03,999 Used the attention grasp, 1207 00:59:04,083 --> 00:59:07,002 facial hold, dietary manipulation. 1208 00:59:07,086 --> 00:59:10,422 Abdominal slaps, stress positions. 1209 00:59:10,506 --> 00:59:13,550 We even offered him a towel to wear if he cooperated. 1210 00:59:13,634 --> 00:59:14,885 MITCHELL: Gave us nothing. 1211 00:59:14,969 --> 00:59:16,595 JESSEN: He said that, if we hurt him, 1212 00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:19,932 he’d just make things up to get us to stop. 1213 00:59:20,015 --> 00:59:22,685 MITCHELL: And then he said he was at our mercy 1214 00:59:22,768 --> 00:59:25,020 and we could kill him if we wanted. 1215 00:59:25,104 --> 00:59:26,772 RODRIGUEZ: What’s the point of moving forward 1216 00:59:26,855 --> 00:59:28,607 without the waterboard? 1217 00:59:28,691 --> 00:59:30,818 It’s like trying to play baseball without the bat. 1218 00:59:30,901 --> 00:59:32,820 We’ve been going at him for 60 days now, 1219 00:59:32,903 --> 00:59:35,155 not getting anywhere. 1220 00:59:35,239 --> 00:59:39,326 The problem is that CTC hasn’t given us 1221 00:59:39,410 --> 00:59:41,287 any good intel to question him about. 1222 00:59:41,370 --> 00:59:43,038 We don’t have any leverage. 1223 00:59:43,122 --> 00:59:44,999 Hold on. You’re the psychologists. 1224 00:59:45,082 --> 00:59:46,834 You told me you were gonna get us intel. 1225 00:59:46,917 --> 00:59:48,627 Now you’re saying we need to give it to you? 1226 00:59:48,711 --> 00:59:54,049 I’m thinking we improve his treatment for a week or two, 1227 00:59:54,133 --> 00:59:58,137 give him some hope, and then we go back at him hard 1228 00:59:58,220 --> 01:00:00,556 and create a sense of helplessness. 1229 01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:04,768 JESSEN: Or we could try recruiting him. 1230 01:00:04,852 --> 01:00:08,522 Tell him he can be a CIA agent if he talks. 1231 01:00:08,605 --> 01:00:09,982 The FBI does that. 1232 01:00:10,065 --> 01:00:11,984 We’re not the FBI. We don’t do that. 1233 01:00:12,067 --> 01:00:14,737 MITCHELL: The way the science works is 1234 01:00:14,820 --> 01:00:16,905 we only get the intel after... 1235 01:00:16,989 --> 01:00:18,699 BERNADETTE: After what? 1236 01:00:18,782 --> 01:00:21,118 Why are so many of these guys still lying to us 1237 01:00:21,201 --> 01:00:23,329 after you work on them? 1238 01:00:25,581 --> 01:00:27,833 Where’s the special sauce? 1239 01:00:30,085 --> 01:00:34,006 You have to make this work. It’s only legal if it works. 1240 01:00:34,089 --> 01:00:36,884 The CIA’s questioning of Muhammad Rahim 1241 01:00:36,967 --> 01:00:39,094 resulted in zero intelligence reports. 1242 01:00:39,178 --> 01:00:42,431 On April 21, 2008, the Agency convened 1243 01:00:42,514 --> 01:00:44,266 an after-action review of his interrogation. 1244 01:00:44,350 --> 01:00:46,977 Senator, I just want to point out that this is the first time 1245 01:00:47,061 --> 01:00:48,645 the Agency stopped and evaluated 1246 01:00:48,729 --> 01:00:50,230 the effectiveness of the program. 1247 01:00:51,398 --> 01:00:53,484 And they concluded that, in the future, 1248 01:00:53,567 --> 01:00:55,569 CIA interrogators should use rapport building. 1249 01:00:58,781 --> 01:01:01,116 They even suggested asking other agencies, 1250 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,410 law enforcement, and even other countries 1251 01:01:03,494 --> 01:01:05,245 about effective interrogation methods. 1252 01:01:07,539 --> 01:01:08,707 So... 1253 01:01:11,460 --> 01:01:14,004 For the past six years, there’s been a steady stream 1254 01:01:14,088 --> 01:01:19,676 of CIA personnel-- directors, deputies, analysts-- 1255 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,553 coming over here and telling me 1256 01:01:21,637 --> 01:01:25,724 what an amazing success EITs have been. 1257 01:01:25,808 --> 01:01:29,603 Somehow not even one of them managed to mention that part. 1258 01:01:34,858 --> 01:01:40,531 How many detainees have been through the program in total? 1259 01:01:41,615 --> 01:01:43,450 At least 119. 1260 01:01:45,911 --> 01:01:47,830 The Agency admits a quarter of them 1261 01:01:47,913 --> 01:01:49,957 should never have been detained. 1262 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,878 The EIT program never worked, not on anyone. 1263 01:01:57,047 --> 01:01:59,133 (gavel banging) 1264 01:02:04,555 --> 01:02:07,850 Today, we are gathered to approve 1265 01:02:07,933 --> 01:02:09,435 the committee’s study of 1266 01:02:09,518 --> 01:02:14,565 the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program. 1267 01:02:14,648 --> 01:02:17,317 I would like to thank Daniel Jones 1268 01:02:17,401 --> 01:02:21,155 and his small staff who prepared this study. 1269 01:02:21,238 --> 01:02:23,699 Clerk, would you call the roll? 1270 01:02:25,325 --> 01:02:28,078 -CLERK: Mr. Udall? -UDALL: Yay. 1271 01:02:28,162 --> 01:02:31,081 -CLERK: Mr. Rubio? -RUBIO: Nay. 1272 01:02:31,165 --> 01:02:33,834 -CLERK: Mr. Rockefeller? -ROCKEFELLER: Yay. 1273 01:02:33,917 --> 01:02:36,295 -CLERK: Mr. Warner? -WARNER: Yay. 1274 01:02:36,378 --> 01:02:38,297 -CLERK: Mr. Blunt? -BLUNT: Nay. 1275 01:02:38,380 --> 01:02:41,216 -CLERK: Mr. Conrad? -CONRAD: Yay. 1276 01:02:41,300 --> 01:02:43,510 -CLERK: Mr. Coats? -COATS: Nay. 1277 01:02:43,594 --> 01:02:45,846 -CLERK: Mr. Nelson? -NELSON: Yay. 1278 01:02:45,929 --> 01:02:48,307 -CLERK: Mr. Risch? -RISCH: Nay. 1279 01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:50,893 -CLERK: Ms. Mikulski? -MIKULSKI: Yay. 1280 01:02:50,976 --> 01:02:53,145 -CLERK: Mr. Burr? -BURR: Nay. 1281 01:02:53,228 --> 01:02:55,606 -CLERK: Mr. Wyden? -WYDEN: Yay. 1282 01:02:55,689 --> 01:02:58,066 -CLERK: Ms. Snowe? -SNOWE: Yay. 1283 01:02:58,150 --> 01:03:02,070 -CLERK: Mr. Chambliss? -CHAMBLISS: Nay. 1284 01:03:02,154 --> 01:03:04,239 CLERK: Ms. Feinstein? 1285 01:03:04,323 --> 01:03:06,700 Yay. 1286 01:03:09,077 --> 01:03:10,662 The motion passes. 1287 01:03:10,746 --> 01:03:15,751 The report will now be sent to the CIA for final comments. 1288 01:03:19,546 --> 01:03:21,423 BRENNAN: I, John Owen Brennan, 1289 01:03:21,507 --> 01:03:23,634 do solemnly swear to tell the truth, the full truth, 1290 01:03:23,717 --> 01:03:26,094 and nothing but the truth, so help me God. 1291 01:03:26,178 --> 01:03:28,764 FEINSTEIN: Thank you, Mr. Brennan. 1292 01:03:28,847 --> 01:03:31,016 I look forward to hearing your testimony. 1293 01:03:31,099 --> 01:03:34,353 (cameras clicking quietly) 1294 01:03:34,436 --> 01:03:36,730 I am honored to appear before you today 1295 01:03:36,813 --> 01:03:40,734 as the president’s nominee for director of the CIA. 1296 01:03:40,817 --> 01:03:44,530 I’d like to say from the beginning that honesty-- 1297 01:03:44,613 --> 01:03:48,033 truthfulness-- was a value inculcated in me 1298 01:03:48,116 --> 01:03:51,078 growing up in New Jersey by my parents, Owen and Dorothy. 1299 01:03:51,161 --> 01:03:53,205 Now, none of us are perfect beings. 1300 01:03:53,288 --> 01:03:55,290 I am far from perfect. 1301 01:03:55,374 --> 01:03:57,501 But I will be honest with this committee 1302 01:03:57,584 --> 01:03:59,127 and do everything possible 1303 01:03:59,211 --> 01:04:02,464 to meet your legitimate needs and requirements. 1304 01:04:02,548 --> 01:04:04,007 UDALL: Mr. Brennan, (clears throat) 1305 01:04:04,091 --> 01:04:06,718 I’ve long believed that our government has an obligation 1306 01:04:06,802 --> 01:04:10,847 to the American people to face its mistakes transparently, 1307 01:04:10,931 --> 01:04:13,892 to help the public understand the nature of those mistakes, 1308 01:04:13,976 --> 01:04:16,270 and to correct them. 1309 01:04:16,353 --> 01:04:20,274 The enhanced interrogation techniques were brutal, 1310 01:04:20,357 --> 01:04:23,026 and, perhaps most importantly, they did not work. 1311 01:04:23,110 --> 01:04:26,029 Now, the CIA has a responsibility 1312 01:04:26,113 --> 01:04:28,490 to correct any inaccurate information it provided 1313 01:04:28,574 --> 01:04:30,659 to the previous White House, the Department of Justice, 1314 01:04:30,742 --> 01:04:32,536 Congress and the public. 1315 01:04:32,619 --> 01:04:34,913 So, here’s my question: 1316 01:04:34,997 --> 01:04:38,208 Do you agree that the CIA has this responsibility? 1317 01:04:38,292 --> 01:04:40,794 And I’d appreciate a yes or no answer. 1318 01:04:42,504 --> 01:04:46,008 Yes, Senator. 1319 01:04:46,091 --> 01:04:47,634 Absolutely. 1320 01:04:47,718 --> 01:04:49,261 (phone rings) 1321 01:04:49,344 --> 01:04:50,846 SECRETARY: Office of the chief of staff. 1322 01:04:50,929 --> 01:04:52,973 Mr. McDonough is in a meeting right now. 1323 01:04:53,056 --> 01:04:55,309 According to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, 1324 01:04:55,392 --> 01:04:58,895 the president’s approval rating is at 44%. 1325 01:04:58,979 --> 01:05:00,439 -That’s up three points since March... -(door opens) 1326 01:05:00,522 --> 01:05:02,441 SECRETARY: Excuse me. Mr. McDonough. 1327 01:05:02,524 --> 01:05:04,985 -Director Brennan is here. -Oh. 1328 01:05:05,068 --> 01:05:06,320 There he is. 1329 01:05:06,403 --> 01:05:08,488 -Congratulations, Mr. Director. -Thank you. 1330 01:05:08,572 --> 01:05:09,990 Welcome. Come on in. Thank you. 1331 01:05:10,073 --> 01:05:12,200 Thank you and thank President Obama. 1332 01:05:12,284 --> 01:05:13,952 -(door closes) -I’ll let him know. 1333 01:05:14,036 --> 01:05:16,121 Speaking of, uh, 1334 01:05:16,204 --> 01:05:18,624 he wanted me to ask you if there’s any new information 1335 01:05:18,707 --> 01:05:21,084 on the drone strikes of April 29th? 1336 01:05:21,168 --> 01:05:24,588 We can confirm that the Al Qaeda planner 1337 01:05:24,671 --> 01:05:27,633 Abu Sulayman al-Jazairi has been killed. 1338 01:05:27,716 --> 01:05:30,260 Unfortunately, we also believe 1339 01:05:30,344 --> 01:05:34,348 that there were between five and ten civilian casualties. 1340 01:05:34,431 --> 01:05:35,849 Shit. 1341 01:05:35,932 --> 01:05:38,143 Well, I’ll let the president know. 1342 01:05:38,226 --> 01:05:40,228 What about the Intelligence Committee report? 1343 01:05:40,312 --> 01:05:41,772 We need to talk about that. 1344 01:05:41,855 --> 01:05:44,691 John, w-we gave the CIA until February 1345 01:05:44,775 --> 01:05:47,152 to come up with its response; it’s now May. 1346 01:05:47,235 --> 01:05:49,154 I’ve got Senator Feinstein all over my phone sheet. 1347 01:05:49,237 --> 01:05:51,531 I don’t want to be the one who has to push on this, 1348 01:05:51,615 --> 01:05:54,284 but the president would really like to get this behind us. 1349 01:05:59,748 --> 01:06:01,541 And? 1350 01:06:01,625 --> 01:06:03,960 We acknowledge that 1351 01:06:04,044 --> 01:06:06,630 the Detention and Interrogation Program had shortcomings 1352 01:06:06,713 --> 01:06:08,965 and that the Agency made mistakes. 1353 01:06:09,049 --> 01:06:10,717 The most serious of those occurred early on 1354 01:06:10,801 --> 01:06:13,428 and stemmed from the fact that we were unprepared. 1355 01:06:15,055 --> 01:06:18,642 Now, as you know, we part ways on some key points. 1356 01:06:18,725 --> 01:06:22,062 According to our review, indications are that 1357 01:06:22,145 --> 01:06:24,314 interrogations of detainees upon whom 1358 01:06:24,398 --> 01:06:27,109 the enhanced interrogation techniques were used 1359 01:06:27,192 --> 01:06:30,529 did produce unique intelligence 1360 01:06:30,612 --> 01:06:32,364 that helped thwart attack plans, 1361 01:06:32,447 --> 01:06:34,408 capture terrorists, and saved lives. 1362 01:06:34,491 --> 01:06:35,951 Excuse me, intelligence gathered from EITs... 1363 01:06:36,034 --> 01:06:38,245 And that intelligence continues to inform 1364 01:06:38,328 --> 01:06:40,038 our counterterrorism efforts. 1365 01:06:40,122 --> 01:06:41,623 It led us to bin Laden. 1366 01:06:43,208 --> 01:06:45,585 Now, it’s one thing to disapprove of the program. 1367 01:06:45,669 --> 01:06:47,295 I-I welcome that conversation, 1368 01:06:47,379 --> 01:06:49,005 but it’s something else altogether 1369 01:06:49,089 --> 01:06:50,632 to say that it was mismanaged and ineffective. 1370 01:06:50,716 --> 01:06:51,842 Excuse me, Director Brennan. 1371 01:06:51,925 --> 01:06:54,553 The report is based on CIA records. 1372 01:06:54,636 --> 01:06:57,180 CIA officers themselves called it ineffective. 1373 01:06:57,264 --> 01:06:58,890 CIA officers? 1374 01:06:58,974 --> 01:07:01,393 Well, you didn’t speak to any CIA officers in the program, 1375 01:07:01,476 --> 01:07:02,644 did you, Dan? 1376 01:07:02,728 --> 01:07:05,105 Your lawyers would not make them available to us 1377 01:07:05,188 --> 01:07:08,775 because of the Department of Justice’s criminal inquiry. 1378 01:07:08,859 --> 01:07:11,862 We also disagree with the study’s characterization of 1379 01:07:11,945 --> 01:07:16,283 how the CIA briefed Congress, the White House and the press. 1380 01:07:16,366 --> 01:07:18,785 Now, we have documentation that certainly proves that. 1381 01:07:18,869 --> 01:07:20,287 Excuse me, sir, what documents? 1382 01:07:20,370 --> 01:07:21,663 If the director is referencing 1383 01:07:21,747 --> 01:07:23,540 cables or e-mails we were never shown, 1384 01:07:23,623 --> 01:07:25,167 then that’s a violation of our agreement. 1385 01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:27,753 Everything was supposed to have been provided to us. 1386 01:07:27,836 --> 01:07:29,755 Do we just give the committee access 1387 01:07:29,838 --> 01:07:31,715 to the entire CIA computer system? 1388 01:07:31,798 --> 01:07:33,633 Is that where this goes? 1389 01:07:33,717 --> 01:07:37,095 Dan gets to read every e-mail, gets to see every document? 1390 01:07:37,179 --> 01:07:40,265 Every relevant document or e-mail, yes. 1391 01:07:42,350 --> 01:07:45,228 I have always supported the intelligence community. 1392 01:07:45,312 --> 01:07:50,066 I broke with my own party to support the drone program, 1393 01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:52,986 but what this report makes very clear 1394 01:07:53,069 --> 01:07:56,656 is a real need for oversight and accountability. 1395 01:07:56,740 --> 01:07:59,618 You asked for our response, and we gave it to you. 1396 01:07:59,701 --> 01:08:02,078 We looked in the mirror. 1397 01:08:02,162 --> 01:08:05,040 Now, uh, we made mistakes. 1398 01:08:05,123 --> 01:08:08,502 There were abuses, and those abuses have been addressed. 1399 01:08:08,585 --> 01:08:11,963 But I-I vehemently disagree with the narrative 1400 01:08:12,047 --> 01:08:14,049 that you’re trying to string together here. 1401 01:08:14,132 --> 01:08:15,759 It lacks context. 1402 01:08:15,842 --> 01:08:17,719 It does not paint an accurate picture 1403 01:08:17,803 --> 01:08:19,888 of the work that was done. 1404 01:08:19,971 --> 01:08:21,556 Let’s go. 1405 01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,518 DANIEL: Senator, John Brennan’s name is in that report. 1406 01:08:24,601 --> 01:08:26,269 He was Director Tenet’s chief of staff 1407 01:08:26,353 --> 01:08:27,646 and then deputy executive director 1408 01:08:27,729 --> 01:08:29,272 when the program started. 1409 01:08:29,356 --> 01:08:30,941 -He grew up at the Agency. -MORRIS: He claims to have 1410 01:08:31,024 --> 01:08:32,651 -spoken out against the EIT program... -Where? 1411 01:08:32,734 --> 01:08:34,736 I just spent five years looking at their e-mails. 1412 01:08:34,820 --> 01:08:36,613 I never found anything to suggest that’s true. 1413 01:08:36,696 --> 01:08:38,949 Well, we knew this wasn’t going to be easy. 1414 01:08:39,032 --> 01:08:42,035 They have their own narrative, and they’re gonna stick to it. 1415 01:08:42,118 --> 01:08:43,912 Maybe we could come up with some middle ground, 1416 01:08:43,995 --> 01:08:46,122 -find some common language. -I thought our job 1417 01:08:46,206 --> 01:08:47,707 was to provide oversight and accountability, 1418 01:08:47,791 --> 01:08:49,626 not middle ground. 1419 01:08:50,418 --> 01:08:52,504 I have a question for you. 1420 01:08:52,587 --> 01:08:55,090 Do you work for me or for the report? 1421 01:08:56,591 --> 01:09:01,012 And I’d encourage you to think about that before answering. 1422 01:09:13,483 --> 01:09:15,569 McDONOUGH: Dan! 1423 01:09:15,652 --> 01:09:17,696 (laughs): Dan Jones. 1424 01:09:17,779 --> 01:09:19,030 There he is. 1425 01:09:19,114 --> 01:09:20,949 Look at you, chief investigator 1426 01:09:21,032 --> 01:09:23,410 of the largest study the Senate’s ever conducted. 1427 01:09:23,493 --> 01:09:25,036 My God. How you doing? 1428 01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:26,955 It’s good to see you in the fresh air. 1429 01:09:27,038 --> 01:09:28,373 -(chuckles): Yeah. -It’s so funny. 1430 01:09:28,456 --> 01:09:29,958 I was just thinking the other night, 1431 01:09:30,041 --> 01:09:32,544 do you remember that time you came and saw me, 1432 01:09:32,627 --> 01:09:34,170 right after you got out of school? 1433 01:09:34,254 --> 01:09:36,214 You said go get intel experience, 1434 01:09:36,298 --> 01:09:37,883 wait till the Dems got the Senate back. 1435 01:09:37,966 --> 01:09:39,217 And look at you now: 1436 01:09:39,301 --> 01:09:40,844 working for the Senate Intelligence Committee 1437 01:09:40,927 --> 01:09:42,387 for Dianne Feinstein. 1438 01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:44,097 You told me once you wanted to make a difference. 1439 01:09:44,180 --> 01:09:45,807 I hope you still get that chance. 1440 01:09:45,891 --> 01:09:47,767 -What does that mean? -What does that mean? 1441 01:09:47,851 --> 01:09:51,605 It means, Dan, get out of the senator’s head about the CIA. 1442 01:09:51,688 --> 01:09:53,607 You’re not doing yourself any favors. 1443 01:09:53,690 --> 01:09:55,150 Have you read the report? 1444 01:09:55,233 --> 01:09:58,403 It’s 7,000 pages, Dan. 1445 01:09:58,486 --> 01:10:02,240 The Bible tells the history of mankind in less than that. 1446 01:10:02,324 --> 01:10:05,744 Look, buddy, 1447 01:10:05,827 --> 01:10:07,495 we’re gonna get the CIA to sit down with you, 1448 01:10:07,579 --> 01:10:09,956 tell you their side of the story. 1449 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,667 It would help if you would listen. 1450 01:10:14,294 --> 01:10:16,463 The study seems to most seriously diverge 1451 01:10:16,546 --> 01:10:19,507 from the facts by asking the reader to believe 1452 01:10:19,591 --> 01:10:21,801 the CIA withheld information 1453 01:10:21,885 --> 01:10:23,845 from the executive branch and Congress. 1454 01:10:23,929 --> 01:10:27,057 We’d like to see that removed from the report. 1455 01:10:27,140 --> 01:10:29,142 DANIEL: After the photos of Abu Ghraib came out in 2004, 1456 01:10:29,225 --> 01:10:31,478 Deputy Director McLaughlin appeared before Congress, 1457 01:10:31,561 --> 01:10:34,439 in front of you, and said the CIA is not authorized 1458 01:10:34,522 --> 01:10:36,816 to do anything like what you’ve seen in those photos. 1459 01:10:36,900 --> 01:10:38,860 But what they were doing was even worse. 1460 01:10:38,944 --> 01:10:40,862 Then in 2005, Senator Rockefeller 1461 01:10:40,946 --> 01:10:42,656 called for a review of the program, 1462 01:10:42,739 --> 01:10:44,699 and the deputy chief of Counterterrorism 1463 01:10:44,783 --> 01:10:46,493 got nervous where that might lead. 1464 01:10:46,576 --> 01:10:48,787 So he sent a message to senior leadership 1465 01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:51,373 discussing the need to manage the situation. 1466 01:10:51,456 --> 01:10:55,293 He said, "We either get out and sell, or we get hammered. 1467 01:10:55,377 --> 01:10:58,338 Congress reads it, cuts our authorities, 1468 01:10:58,421 --> 01:10:59,798 messes up our budget. 1469 01:10:59,881 --> 01:11:01,132 We need to make sure 1470 01:11:01,216 --> 01:11:03,593 the impression of what we do is positive." 1471 01:11:03,677 --> 01:11:06,262 This is the deputy chief of Counterterrorism. 1472 01:11:06,346 --> 01:11:08,848 That all stays in. 1473 01:11:08,932 --> 01:11:11,059 We fundamentally disagree with the assertion 1474 01:11:11,142 --> 01:11:13,979 that the program was poorly managed and executed 1475 01:11:14,062 --> 01:11:17,565 and that unqualified officers imposed brutal conditions, 1476 01:11:17,649 --> 01:11:20,652 used unapproved techniques, and were rarely held accountable. 1477 01:11:20,735 --> 01:11:22,862 FEINSTEIN: What about Mitchell and Jessen? 1478 01:11:22,946 --> 01:11:26,658 DANIEL: Mitchell’s PhD thesis was on diet and exercise 1479 01:11:26,741 --> 01:11:28,368 for controlling hypertension. 1480 01:11:28,451 --> 01:11:30,412 Jessen’s dissertation was on family therapy, 1481 01:11:30,495 --> 01:11:31,997 something called family sculpting, 1482 01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,082 where you make clay figures of your family members. 1483 01:11:34,165 --> 01:11:35,792 -No. How much were they paid? -They had no experience 1484 01:11:35,875 --> 01:11:37,043 in real-world interrogations. 1485 01:11:37,127 --> 01:11:38,586 No science to back up their claims. 1486 01:11:38,670 --> 01:11:39,963 They were allowed to assess 1487 01:11:40,046 --> 01:11:41,840 the effectiveness of their own program 1488 01:11:41,923 --> 01:11:43,842 without providing any scientific evidence. 1489 01:11:43,925 --> 01:11:45,385 How much in total 1490 01:11:45,468 --> 01:11:48,555 did the U.S. taxpayers give them for their work? 1491 01:11:48,638 --> 01:11:50,515 Over $80 million. 1492 01:11:51,599 --> 01:11:54,394 The Agency also disagrees that 1493 01:11:54,477 --> 01:11:57,605 the Detention and Interrogation Program did not produce 1494 01:11:57,689 --> 01:11:59,566 unique intelligence that disrupted plots 1495 01:11:59,649 --> 01:12:01,860 and saved lives. 1496 01:12:01,943 --> 01:12:04,154 For instance, the identity of José Padilla, 1497 01:12:04,237 --> 01:12:06,031 the "dirty bomber." 1498 01:12:06,114 --> 01:12:07,615 If we hadn’t stopped Padilla, 1499 01:12:07,699 --> 01:12:11,161 this entire area would be radioactive today. 1500 01:12:11,244 --> 01:12:12,871 DANIEL: José Padilla! 1501 01:12:12,954 --> 01:12:15,790 Padilla found the instructions for his dirty bomb online, 1502 01:12:15,874 --> 01:12:19,252 in-in an article entitled "Making and owning an H-bomb 1503 01:12:19,335 --> 01:12:22,422 is the kind of challenge real Americans seek." 1504 01:12:22,505 --> 01:12:25,383 It says, "Fill two buckets with uranium 1505 01:12:25,467 --> 01:12:28,595 and swing them above your head as fast as possible." 1506 01:12:28,678 --> 01:12:30,055 It was a joke. 1507 01:12:30,138 --> 01:12:31,639 As far as we can tell, 1508 01:12:31,723 --> 01:12:34,059 everything they attribute to EITs they already had, 1509 01:12:34,142 --> 01:12:36,770 from other sources, from foreign governments, 1510 01:12:36,853 --> 01:12:38,313 from other methods. 1511 01:12:38,396 --> 01:12:40,899 They claim they saved lives, but what they really did 1512 01:12:40,982 --> 01:12:42,692 was make it impossible to prosecute 1513 01:12:42,776 --> 01:12:45,945 a mass murderer like KSM, because if what we did to him 1514 01:12:46,029 --> 01:12:48,823 ever came out in a court of law, the case is over. 1515 01:12:48,907 --> 01:12:52,077 The guy planned 9/11, and instead of going to jail 1516 01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,537 for the rest of his life, the CIA turned him into 1517 01:12:54,621 --> 01:12:57,791 a recruiting tool for a war we’re still fighting. 1518 01:13:01,461 --> 01:13:03,671 Stop meeting with them. 1519 01:13:10,095 --> 01:13:13,223 This is a remarkable document you’ve created. 1520 01:13:13,306 --> 01:13:15,058 Truly. 1521 01:13:15,141 --> 01:13:18,645 It will provide an enduring history, 1522 01:13:18,728 --> 01:13:21,397 whether it comes out or not. 1523 01:13:24,067 --> 01:13:26,236 (door opens, closes) 1524 01:13:26,319 --> 01:13:28,780 What does that mean, "w-whether it comes out or not"? 1525 01:13:28,863 --> 01:13:31,116 What does she mean? 1526 01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:32,742 What does that mean? 1527 01:13:32,826 --> 01:13:34,369 We’ve been working on this thing for nearly five years. 1528 01:13:34,452 --> 01:13:37,956 Yes, and it is still our word against theirs. 1529 01:13:38,039 --> 01:13:39,624 She’s gonna need more than that. 1530 01:13:44,462 --> 01:13:46,840 (birds chirping) 1531 01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:55,849 (ringtone playing) 1532 01:13:56,683 --> 01:13:57,851 This is Jones. 1533 01:13:57,934 --> 01:13:59,602 TANNER: Hey, Dan, this is Evan Tanner. 1534 01:13:59,686 --> 01:14:03,231 Um, I hear rumors the report might not be coming out now. 1535 01:14:03,314 --> 01:14:05,024 A lot of pushback from the Agency. 1536 01:14:05,108 --> 01:14:07,944 -They’re calling it "flawed." -Who told you that? 1537 01:14:08,027 --> 01:14:11,072 (sighs) Dan, I’m the national security reporter 1538 01:14:11,156 --> 01:14:12,448 for The New York Times. 1539 01:14:12,532 --> 01:14:14,492 Do you have any thoughts? 1540 01:14:14,576 --> 01:14:17,829 DANIEL: (sighs) It’s not my place to talk about rumors. 1541 01:14:17,912 --> 01:14:19,414 TANNER: No, I didn’t think you would. 1542 01:14:19,497 --> 01:14:21,499 I was wondering if you might want to comment. 1543 01:14:21,583 --> 01:14:25,128 Uh, it can be off the record. 1544 01:14:25,211 --> 01:14:29,174 I just think we can help each other here. 1545 01:14:29,257 --> 01:14:31,843 DANIEL: You know I can’t do that. 1546 01:14:33,511 --> 01:14:36,681 And here’s what we know about Caroline Krass: 1547 01:14:36,764 --> 01:14:38,266 20 years in the executive branch, 1548 01:14:38,349 --> 01:14:39,809 including the Office of Legal Counsel 1549 01:14:39,893 --> 01:14:41,477 where she worked with John Yoo. 1550 01:14:41,561 --> 01:14:44,189 Guys, (sighs) this confirmation’s a done deal. 1551 01:14:44,272 --> 01:14:46,065 We’re not gonna stop it. 1552 01:14:46,149 --> 01:14:49,986 But it is a public hearing, and it just seems like 1553 01:14:50,069 --> 01:14:52,030 there’s an opportunity to say something. 1554 01:14:52,113 --> 01:14:54,782 Wh-What are you looking for, Senator? 1555 01:14:54,866 --> 01:14:57,368 I don’t know, something to move the study forward, 1556 01:14:57,452 --> 01:15:00,371 to break us out of this stalemate. 1557 01:15:02,707 --> 01:15:03,958 Any ideas? 1558 01:15:09,088 --> 01:15:10,715 Senator, there is a document. 1559 01:15:19,015 --> 01:15:20,391 (keypad beeps) 1560 01:15:23,102 --> 01:15:25,396 (lights clinking) 1561 01:15:41,204 --> 01:15:43,581 (drawer opens, closes) 1562 01:15:48,127 --> 01:15:50,213 (keypad beeps) 1563 01:15:50,296 --> 01:15:51,923 You ever sleep, bro? 1564 01:15:52,006 --> 01:15:53,883 (chuckles): I used to. 1565 01:15:53,967 --> 01:15:55,843 -Got in the way of work. -(scanner beeps) 1566 01:15:55,927 --> 01:15:58,638 Anything in that bag contain the real names of CIA officers, 1567 01:15:58,721 --> 01:16:00,848 assets or partners, or any information 1568 01:16:00,932 --> 01:16:03,101 that would be in violation of the agreement between 1569 01:16:03,184 --> 01:16:05,895 the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Senate? 1570 01:16:05,979 --> 01:16:08,690 -Have a good night, Jay. -You, too, Dan. 1571 01:16:42,223 --> 01:16:43,808 (lock clicks) 1572 01:16:59,991 --> 01:17:01,242 (gavel banging) 1573 01:17:01,326 --> 01:17:03,328 The committee will come to order. 1574 01:17:03,411 --> 01:17:05,038 -(crowd murmuring) -(cameras clicking) 1575 01:17:05,121 --> 01:17:07,707 Today, we are gathered for the confirmation hearing 1576 01:17:07,790 --> 01:17:12,378 of Caroline Krass to be general counsel of the CIA. 1577 01:17:12,462 --> 01:17:14,964 Welcome, Ms. Krass. 1578 01:17:15,048 --> 01:17:17,216 I’m honored to be here before the committee, 1579 01:17:17,300 --> 01:17:20,178 and I’d like to take this moment to acknowledge my family 1580 01:17:20,261 --> 01:17:22,638 and thank them for their support. 1581 01:17:22,722 --> 01:17:24,140 Thank you. 1582 01:17:24,223 --> 01:17:26,809 Uh, before we begin, I would like to remind members 1583 01:17:26,893 --> 01:17:29,395 not to discuss classified topics 1584 01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:33,483 or ask questions which require a classified answer. 1585 01:17:33,566 --> 01:17:36,444 With that said, I turn to Senator Udall. 1586 01:17:36,527 --> 01:17:38,446 Ms. Krass, nice to see you again. 1587 01:17:38,529 --> 01:17:40,239 We had a chance to sit down last week 1588 01:17:40,323 --> 01:17:41,616 and discuss the Senate’s study 1589 01:17:41,699 --> 01:17:43,993 on the Detention and Interrogation Program. 1590 01:17:44,077 --> 01:17:49,415 You told me you found the study to be hard reading. 1591 01:17:49,499 --> 01:17:51,459 Also, last week, a number of articles appeared 1592 01:17:51,542 --> 01:17:53,503 discussing the one-year anniversary 1593 01:17:53,586 --> 01:17:55,505 of the vote to approve the committee’s study. 1594 01:17:55,588 --> 01:17:57,548 And in one of those articles, 1595 01:17:57,632 --> 01:18:01,469 the CIA claimed to have found significant errors. 1596 01:18:01,552 --> 01:18:04,555 Now, I got to tell you, I don’t believe that is accurate. 1597 01:18:04,639 --> 01:18:07,767 In fact, I’m more confident than ever 1598 01:18:07,850 --> 01:18:11,771 in the factual accuracy of the committee’s study. 1599 01:18:11,854 --> 01:18:16,025 I want to say that again: I’m more confident than ever. 1600 01:18:17,276 --> 01:18:19,445 It appears that the CIA performed their own study 1601 01:18:19,529 --> 01:18:24,033 of the EIT program, initiated by former Director Panetta. 1602 01:18:24,117 --> 01:18:26,452 -(quiet whispering) -And the findings 1603 01:18:26,536 --> 01:18:28,871 in that review are entirely consistent 1604 01:18:28,955 --> 01:18:33,167 with our committee’s report, but amazingly conflicts with 1605 01:18:33,251 --> 01:18:35,336 the CIA’s official response to that report. 1606 01:18:35,420 --> 01:18:38,089 -(quiet murmuring) -(cameras clicking) 1607 01:18:38,172 --> 01:18:41,634 So, why is a review the CIA conducted internally, 1608 01:18:41,717 --> 01:18:45,680 and never revealed to Congress, so different from 1609 01:18:45,763 --> 01:18:49,350 the CIA’s formal response to the committee’s report? 1610 01:18:49,434 --> 01:18:51,644 Do you have an answer for that? 1611 01:18:52,395 --> 01:18:56,065 Um, not at this time. 1612 01:19:01,446 --> 01:19:04,490 If I wanted the public to know about the Panetta review, 1613 01:19:04,574 --> 01:19:06,159 I would have told them myself. 1614 01:19:06,242 --> 01:19:07,743 We hear that the Republicans 1615 01:19:07,827 --> 01:19:09,245 are gonna censure Udall for that performance. 1616 01:19:09,328 --> 01:19:10,746 DANIEL: But the review proves our point. 1617 01:19:10,830 --> 01:19:12,373 They found the same things we did. 1618 01:19:12,457 --> 01:19:14,500 The Agency didn’t know how or where to hold people, 1619 01:19:14,584 --> 01:19:16,210 didn’t know how to interrogate people, 1620 01:19:16,294 --> 01:19:18,588 and, more importantly, the CIA did give it to us. 1621 01:19:18,671 --> 01:19:21,007 I don’t know if it was an accident 1622 01:19:21,090 --> 01:19:22,550 or it was a whistle-blower. 1623 01:19:22,633 --> 01:19:24,093 Well, if it was a whistle-blower, 1624 01:19:24,177 --> 01:19:26,554 you may have just exposed them. 1625 01:19:26,637 --> 01:19:28,848 Not to mention yourself. 1626 01:19:53,414 --> 01:19:55,333 (electronics beeping) 1627 01:20:02,298 --> 01:20:03,674 (keypad beeps) 1628 01:20:13,643 --> 01:20:16,687 (camera clicking) 1629 01:20:25,863 --> 01:20:27,949 We got something here. 1630 01:20:28,032 --> 01:20:29,951 EASTMAN: The director has asked me here today 1631 01:20:30,034 --> 01:20:32,411 in my capacity as Agency legal counsel. 1632 01:20:32,495 --> 01:20:36,999 What we have to discuss has serious implications. 1633 01:20:37,083 --> 01:20:38,209 All right. 1634 01:20:38,292 --> 01:20:39,669 BRENNAN: We have proof that the staff 1635 01:20:39,752 --> 01:20:41,420 of the Senate Intelligence Committee 1636 01:20:41,504 --> 01:20:44,006 illegally gained access to the CIA’s computer network 1637 01:20:44,090 --> 01:20:46,008 and obtained classified documents. 1638 01:20:47,093 --> 01:20:48,261 What kind of proof? 1639 01:20:48,344 --> 01:20:50,012 We found the document in question 1640 01:20:50,096 --> 01:20:52,014 on Daniel Jones’s computer. 1641 01:20:52,098 --> 01:20:55,226 We did not provide it to him or to the committee. 1642 01:20:55,309 --> 01:20:59,188 If he didn’t hack us, how did it get there? 1643 01:20:59,272 --> 01:21:02,817 We feel that Jones and his team need to be disciplined. 1644 01:21:04,527 --> 01:21:06,571 Immediate dismissal is in order, 1645 01:21:06,654 --> 01:21:09,115 at a minimum, I would think. 1646 01:21:10,700 --> 01:21:14,662 John, are you saying that you broke into the computer system 1647 01:21:14,745 --> 01:21:16,414 of the United States Senate? 1648 01:21:16,497 --> 01:21:18,207 We never gave you clearance on that document. 1649 01:21:18,291 --> 01:21:22,044 It was classified, yet you chose to make it public. 1650 01:21:22,128 --> 01:21:23,671 We’ve made our investigation and our findings 1651 01:21:23,754 --> 01:21:24,839 known to the White House. 1652 01:21:24,922 --> 01:21:27,675 DANIEL: You’re fucking kidding me. 1653 01:21:29,093 --> 01:21:30,928 They’re saying I broke into 1654 01:21:31,012 --> 01:21:34,015 the most top secret computer system in the world? 1655 01:21:34,098 --> 01:21:36,183 -Brennan and Eastman came over... -Eastman? 1656 01:21:36,267 --> 01:21:38,102 Eastman’s name is in the report over a thousand times. 1657 01:21:38,185 --> 01:21:40,605 -That’s not a conflict? -Dan. 1658 01:21:40,688 --> 01:21:43,441 They filed a criminal referral against you. 1659 01:21:43,524 --> 01:21:45,901 They want you gone. 1660 01:21:48,904 --> 01:21:51,574 H-How did the Agency come to the conclusion 1661 01:21:51,657 --> 01:21:52,825 that I’m a hacker? 1662 01:21:52,908 --> 01:21:54,660 H-How do they even know what’s on my computer? 1663 01:21:54,744 --> 01:21:56,495 They say they conducted a search. 1664 01:21:56,579 --> 01:21:58,039 Of the United States Senate? 1665 01:21:58,122 --> 01:21:59,874 The whole reason this committee was established 1666 01:21:59,957 --> 01:22:01,876 in the first place was to stop the CIA 1667 01:22:01,959 --> 01:22:03,252 from spying on U.S. citizens. 1668 01:22:03,336 --> 01:22:04,879 The senator is talking to Harry Reid about 1669 01:22:04,962 --> 01:22:06,631 -that very thing... -Did they go into that room? 1670 01:22:06,714 --> 01:22:08,549 That room is off-limits. Did they go into that fucking room? 1671 01:22:08,633 --> 01:22:10,301 I don’t know. 1672 01:22:11,636 --> 01:22:13,262 I don’t know. 1673 01:22:14,889 --> 01:22:17,433 I do know that the Republicans are gonna run with this. 1674 01:22:17,516 --> 01:22:19,477 They’re gonna use it to discredit the report. 1675 01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,937 They’re gonna use it to discredit you. 1676 01:22:23,606 --> 01:22:26,067 Dan, they’re accusing you of breaking the law. 1677 01:22:26,150 --> 01:22:27,735 You’re gonna need a lawyer. 1678 01:22:32,782 --> 01:22:34,992 DANIEL: There’s a saying at the Agency: 1679 01:22:35,076 --> 01:22:36,369 "Admit nothing, 1680 01:22:36,452 --> 01:22:38,537 deny everything, make counteraccusations." 1681 01:22:38,621 --> 01:22:40,748 -That’s what they’re doing. -(footsteps approaching) 1682 01:22:40,831 --> 01:22:42,708 CLIFFORD: The CIA is investigating you for... 1683 01:22:42,792 --> 01:22:44,877 DANIEL: They’re the ones who should be investigated, not me. 1684 01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,546 Mr. Jones? Mr. Clifford will see you now. 1685 01:22:47,630 --> 01:22:49,173 DANIEL: Our computer system 1686 01:22:49,256 --> 01:22:52,051 isn’t even connected to the CIA mainframe. 1687 01:22:52,134 --> 01:22:53,844 So did I just go over to Langley 1688 01:22:53,928 --> 01:22:55,096 and break in on a weekend? 1689 01:22:55,179 --> 01:22:56,972 Seems unlikely. 1690 01:22:57,056 --> 01:22:58,974 So what evidence do they have? 1691 01:22:59,058 --> 01:23:01,060 A document. 1692 01:23:02,144 --> 01:23:04,480 A document? What kind of a document? 1693 01:23:07,274 --> 01:23:08,984 I can’t tell you that. 1694 01:23:09,068 --> 01:23:12,029 Because, what, it’s classified? 1695 01:23:12,113 --> 01:23:14,198 I was tasked to lead an investigation 1696 01:23:14,281 --> 01:23:16,701 into a CIA program they started after 9/11, 1697 01:23:16,784 --> 01:23:19,036 what they called enhanced interrogation. 1698 01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:23,124 And I assume your work is critical of the Agency? 1699 01:23:25,501 --> 01:23:27,795 You know, Dan, a lot of people in this country 1700 01:23:27,878 --> 01:23:29,505 felt the CIA was justified in doing 1701 01:23:29,588 --> 01:23:31,465 whatever they had to do to keep us safe. 1702 01:23:31,549 --> 01:23:33,801 I have friends who lost people that day. 1703 01:23:33,884 --> 01:23:36,470 And a lot of people watch 24 on Thursday nights 1704 01:23:36,554 --> 01:23:38,139 and hear Jack Bauer say, 1705 01:23:38,222 --> 01:23:39,765 "I don’t want to bypass the Constitution, 1706 01:23:39,849 --> 01:23:41,559 but these are extraordinary circumstances," 1707 01:23:41,642 --> 01:23:43,978 just before, you know, he s-sticks a knife in them 1708 01:23:44,061 --> 01:23:45,604 and makes them give up a plot. 1709 01:23:45,688 --> 01:23:47,606 It-it doesn’t work that way. 1710 01:23:48,691 --> 01:23:52,027 Well, as Winston Churchill said, 1711 01:23:52,111 --> 01:23:55,030 "History is written by the victors." 1712 01:23:57,116 --> 01:23:59,452 Churchill didn’t really say that; Hermann Goring did. 1713 01:23:59,535 --> 01:24:01,829 And what he said was, "We will go down in history 1714 01:24:01,912 --> 01:24:03,706 either as the world’s greatest statesmen 1715 01:24:03,789 --> 01:24:05,374 or its worst villains." 1716 01:24:05,458 --> 01:24:08,753 So your report is gonna determine that: 1717 01:24:08,836 --> 01:24:10,504 statesmen or villains? 1718 01:24:14,049 --> 01:24:17,595 How long have you been working on this project, Dan? 1719 01:24:17,678 --> 01:24:19,805 Five years. 1720 01:24:19,889 --> 01:24:22,683 Five years, and it could all go away, 1721 01:24:22,767 --> 01:24:26,395 just vanish in the face of these allegations. 1722 01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:27,897 I can certainly imagine 1723 01:24:27,980 --> 01:24:30,608 an ambitious young man like yourself spends years 1724 01:24:30,691 --> 01:24:33,861 with his head buried in some terrible spectacle, 1725 01:24:33,944 --> 01:24:36,071 gets frustrated with the process, 1726 01:24:36,155 --> 01:24:38,908 sees an opportunity to get the truth out faster, 1727 01:24:38,991 --> 01:24:40,242 maybe crosses a line. 1728 01:24:40,326 --> 01:24:41,911 I’m assuming this is the most important thing 1729 01:24:41,994 --> 01:24:43,746 -you’ve ever been a part of. -I didn’t do it. 1730 01:24:43,829 --> 01:24:45,456 Or I can see an equally ambitious senator 1731 01:24:45,539 --> 01:24:46,749 encouraging you to do something. 1732 01:24:46,832 --> 01:24:48,501 Now would be a good time to tell me. 1733 01:24:48,584 --> 01:24:49,919 That did not happen. 1734 01:24:50,002 --> 01:24:51,796 What I did, I did on my own. I acted alone. 1735 01:24:51,879 --> 01:24:53,631 -So you did steal the document? -I did not steal it. 1736 01:24:53,714 --> 01:24:55,007 -You needed it to... -I relocated it. 1737 01:24:55,090 --> 01:24:56,175 I put it in a safe. 1738 01:24:56,258 --> 01:24:58,302 If they had a way of destroying tapes, 1739 01:24:58,385 --> 01:24:59,845 -then surely they could get... -Everyone has their own words. 1740 01:24:59,929 --> 01:25:01,597 The language is built to choose sides. 1741 01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,974 Now, why did you relocate it? 1742 01:25:08,270 --> 01:25:10,856 Documents had a way of disappearing off the server. 1743 01:25:10,940 --> 01:25:14,443 For instance, in 2010, over 800 documents 1744 01:25:14,527 --> 01:25:17,488 just vanished without any explanation. 1745 01:25:17,571 --> 01:25:20,199 So you had computer issues all along. 1746 01:25:21,367 --> 01:25:23,160 Who else knew what was on the computers? 1747 01:25:23,244 --> 01:25:25,996 Well, the CIA hired an outside firm to vet the documents: 1748 01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:27,331 CENTRA. 1749 01:25:27,414 --> 01:25:29,333 And CACI was also involved. 1750 01:25:29,416 --> 01:25:31,210 -Who are they? -Contractors. 1751 01:25:31,293 --> 01:25:33,087 But Jim Pavitt is on their board. 1752 01:25:34,630 --> 01:25:37,007 Former deputy director of operations for the CIA, 1753 01:25:37,091 --> 01:25:40,261 Jim Pavitt, during the program, Jim Pavitt. 1754 01:25:40,344 --> 01:25:42,179 And is he named in the report? 1755 01:25:43,472 --> 01:25:44,765 Can’t tell me. 1756 01:25:46,016 --> 01:25:48,727 So they can’t destroy the document. (sighs) 1757 01:25:48,811 --> 01:25:51,897 Then they can go after the next best thing: you. 1758 01:25:51,981 --> 01:25:54,108 Make you a zealot. 1759 01:25:54,191 --> 01:25:57,278 Anything you touch is tainted. 1760 01:25:57,361 --> 01:25:59,780 I could see the Agency saying that this is a violation 1761 01:25:59,864 --> 01:26:04,577 of the Espionage Act, the... Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, 1762 01:26:04,660 --> 01:26:06,871 uh, who knows what else. 1763 01:26:06,954 --> 01:26:08,873 And if they file a charge against me, 1764 01:26:08,956 --> 01:26:10,749 how long could I go away for? 1765 01:26:10,833 --> 01:26:13,836 I don’t know. 20 years, maybe more. 1766 01:26:18,632 --> 01:26:20,759 (sighs) 1767 01:26:23,929 --> 01:26:27,474 I did not hack into the CIA computer system. 1768 01:26:29,476 --> 01:26:33,480 I mean, my com-- my computer skills stop at Microsoft Word. 1769 01:26:33,564 --> 01:26:35,274 They probably know that. 1770 01:26:35,357 --> 01:26:36,859 Let me ask you something: 1771 01:26:36,942 --> 01:26:39,194 How much does a Senate staffer make? 1772 01:26:39,278 --> 01:26:41,030 At my level? About-about a hundred grand. 1773 01:26:41,113 --> 01:26:43,657 Any retirement, savings, family money? 1774 01:26:43,741 --> 01:26:45,951 No. 1775 01:26:46,035 --> 01:26:48,454 So, we should discuss my retainer. 1776 01:26:48,537 --> 01:26:50,915 -How much is that? -$30,000 to start. 1777 01:26:50,998 --> 01:26:53,584 And if it goes to trial, add a zero. 1778 01:26:55,336 --> 01:26:56,795 Nothing could make them happier 1779 01:26:56,879 --> 01:26:59,298 than knowing you’re sitting here talking to me. 1780 01:26:59,381 --> 01:27:00,925 That’s what they want, Dan. 1781 01:27:01,008 --> 01:27:05,179 Make you bleed money all over my floor. 1782 01:27:05,262 --> 01:27:08,265 Do you want my expert opinion, for free? 1783 01:27:08,349 --> 01:27:11,769 You don’t really have a legal problem. 1784 01:27:11,852 --> 01:27:14,063 You have a sunlight problem. 1785 01:27:14,146 --> 01:27:17,775 I’m sure you know people who can help you solve it. 1786 01:27:31,705 --> 01:27:33,248 Daniel Jones. 1787 01:27:33,332 --> 01:27:34,708 I didn’t think you’d ever return my calls. 1788 01:27:34,792 --> 01:27:36,210 Does your boss know you’re talking to 1789 01:27:36,293 --> 01:27:38,003 a guy with a byline and a tape recorder? 1790 01:27:38,087 --> 01:27:39,338 There’s something going on I think you should look into. 1791 01:27:39,421 --> 01:27:41,715 It involves the Agency. 1792 01:27:43,384 --> 01:27:45,928 Okay. Is it that report you’ve been working on, 1793 01:27:46,011 --> 01:27:47,596 the one that never quite comes out? 1794 01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:50,557 Computers. It has to do with the hacking of computers. 1795 01:27:50,641 --> 01:27:52,977 All right, whose? 1796 01:27:54,687 --> 01:27:56,939 The United States Senate. 1797 01:27:57,022 --> 01:27:59,358 Someone hacked into the Senate? 1798 01:28:01,443 --> 01:28:03,153 No shit? Okay. 1799 01:28:03,237 --> 01:28:06,240 You have any idea if it was foreign or domestic? 1800 01:28:06,323 --> 01:28:08,033 Uh, all right, yes, you-- 1801 01:28:08,117 --> 01:28:09,702 sorry, you said it was the Agency. 1802 01:28:09,785 --> 01:28:11,787 So what-what does the CIA 1803 01:28:11,870 --> 01:28:13,247 have to do with U.S. Senate computers? 1804 01:28:13,330 --> 01:28:14,623 Evan, you’re the national security reporter 1805 01:28:14,707 --> 01:28:15,666 for The New York Times. 1806 01:28:15,749 --> 01:28:18,460 You can figure it out. All right? 1807 01:28:18,544 --> 01:28:20,129 (sighs) 1808 01:28:21,130 --> 01:28:22,881 -Hmm. -(knock on door) 1809 01:28:23,841 --> 01:28:25,050 Morning, Senator. 1810 01:28:25,134 --> 01:28:26,593 You wanted to see me? 1811 01:28:26,677 --> 01:28:28,595 MORRIS: You know anything about this? 1812 01:28:28,679 --> 01:28:33,017 "Computer Searches at Center of Dispute on CIA Detentions." 1813 01:28:33,100 --> 01:28:34,977 You have any idea how that ended up 1814 01:28:35,060 --> 01:28:36,895 -in The New York Times? -Yeah, I saw that. 1815 01:28:36,979 --> 01:28:38,522 It looks accurate. 1816 01:28:38,605 --> 01:28:41,400 Senator McCain is already calling the CIA a rogue agency. 1817 01:28:41,483 --> 01:28:42,776 What are your thoughts on 1818 01:28:42,860 --> 01:28:45,446 someone like Edward Snowden, Dan? 1819 01:28:45,529 --> 01:28:48,323 W-Well, Senator, I know how you feel about leaks. 1820 01:28:48,407 --> 01:28:50,993 I think he’s a traitor, plain and simple. 1821 01:28:51,076 --> 01:28:52,828 It’s my job to provide oversight 1822 01:28:52,911 --> 01:28:54,455 with the tools of governance, 1823 01:28:54,538 --> 01:28:57,416 not lights and cameras and headlines. 1824 01:28:58,667 --> 01:29:00,294 (sighs) 1825 01:29:01,837 --> 01:29:03,714 Do you want me to resign? 1826 01:29:07,426 --> 01:29:09,261 No. 1827 01:29:09,344 --> 01:29:12,222 But I think I might need you to write me a speech. 1828 01:29:12,306 --> 01:29:15,017 (applause) 1829 01:29:16,310 --> 01:29:18,353 AMES: Senator Feinstein claimed today 1830 01:29:18,437 --> 01:29:21,732 on the Senate floor that the CIA hacked 1831 01:29:21,815 --> 01:29:23,609 the Senate Intelligence Committee’s computers 1832 01:29:23,692 --> 01:29:26,153 to thwart an investigation into past practices. 1833 01:29:26,236 --> 01:29:27,654 Can you respond to that? 1834 01:29:27,738 --> 01:29:31,116 Well, first, we in no way, shape or form 1835 01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:34,161 tried to thwart the release of the report. 1836 01:29:34,244 --> 01:29:36,830 -(cameras clicking) -Uh, we want that behind us. 1837 01:29:36,914 --> 01:29:39,666 As far as this allegation that the CIA 1838 01:29:39,750 --> 01:29:42,503 somehow hacked into the Senate computer system, 1839 01:29:42,586 --> 01:29:46,548 (sighs) nothing could be further from the truth. 1840 01:29:46,632 --> 01:29:49,009 We just wouldn’t do that. 1841 01:29:49,093 --> 01:29:51,095 It’s beyond the scope of reason. 1842 01:30:01,647 --> 01:30:03,398 Thank you. 1843 01:30:03,482 --> 01:30:05,192 I understand your position, Senator, 1844 01:30:05,275 --> 01:30:07,736 and I am aware of Director Brennan’s comments. 1845 01:30:07,820 --> 01:30:09,780 Did you hear what Lindsey Graham said this morning, 1846 01:30:09,863 --> 01:30:12,741 about the Agency breaking into our computers? 1847 01:30:12,825 --> 01:30:15,994 "The legislative branch should declare war on the CIA. 1848 01:30:16,078 --> 01:30:19,665 Heads should roll, people should go to jail." 1849 01:30:19,748 --> 01:30:23,085 Is that what you want? Send people to jail? 1850 01:30:23,168 --> 01:30:25,796 We do have jails for a reason. 1851 01:30:25,879 --> 01:30:28,048 The Justice Department investigated the CIA, 1852 01:30:28,132 --> 01:30:29,883 and they decided not to prosecute. 1853 01:30:29,967 --> 01:30:32,177 It’s their call, not ours. 1854 01:30:32,261 --> 01:30:34,638 Now, when this administration took office, 1855 01:30:34,721 --> 01:30:36,265 we faced the very real possibility 1856 01:30:36,348 --> 01:30:38,767 of economic collapse. 1857 01:30:38,851 --> 01:30:40,310 We had a decision to make: 1858 01:30:40,394 --> 01:30:42,604 Do we spend our political capital on going around 1859 01:30:42,688 --> 01:30:45,440 trying to find people to blame, or do we solve the problem? 1860 01:30:45,524 --> 01:30:47,359 Maybe the way to solve the problem 1861 01:30:47,442 --> 01:30:49,778 is to hold people accountable. 1862 01:30:49,862 --> 01:30:52,489 Do you ever wonder why history repeats itself? 1863 01:30:52,573 --> 01:30:54,116 Well, I think maybe it’s because 1864 01:30:54,199 --> 01:30:55,742 we don’t always listen the first time. 1865 01:30:55,826 --> 01:30:59,204 Senator, the people at the Agency-- they have families. 1866 01:30:59,288 --> 01:31:02,166 There are children who might lose a parent. 1867 01:31:02,249 --> 01:31:04,585 (sets down cup) 1868 01:31:04,668 --> 01:31:09,173 Years ago, some radical group put a bomb in the flower box 1869 01:31:09,256 --> 01:31:12,551 outside of my daughter’s bedroom window, right out here. 1870 01:31:12,634 --> 01:31:15,429 Had it been any warmer out, it would have exploded. 1871 01:31:15,512 --> 01:31:16,889 And then there was the time 1872 01:31:16,972 --> 01:31:21,018 that I found Harvey Milk shot to death in his office. 1873 01:31:21,101 --> 01:31:24,062 I-I think I’m aware of the risks of public service. 1874 01:31:24,146 --> 01:31:27,274 President Obama ended the torture program 1875 01:31:27,357 --> 01:31:29,735 three days after taking office. 1876 01:31:29,818 --> 01:31:34,406 The EITs, what the CIA did-- that is not our mess. 1877 01:31:34,489 --> 01:31:35,991 No, it’s not, 1878 01:31:36,074 --> 01:31:39,578 but that’s not the question we’re asking, is it? 1879 01:31:39,661 --> 01:31:43,957 The question we’re asking is: Who is going to clean it up? 1880 01:31:44,041 --> 01:31:45,626 So let’s do that. 1881 01:31:45,709 --> 01:31:50,505 Right after Director Brennan apologizes to me and my staff. 1882 01:31:52,174 --> 01:31:53,842 ASSISTANT: The inspector general is here. 1883 01:31:53,926 --> 01:31:55,636 Go ahead in. 1884 01:31:55,719 --> 01:31:59,681 BUCKLEY: In regards to the CIA search of Senate computers, 1885 01:31:59,765 --> 01:32:01,642 we’ve looked into the matter 1886 01:32:01,725 --> 01:32:04,937 and have recommended that the Department of Justice 1887 01:32:05,020 --> 01:32:06,980 begin a criminal investigation. 1888 01:32:07,064 --> 01:32:08,023 EASTMAN: Good. 1889 01:32:08,106 --> 01:32:09,816 So have we. 1890 01:32:09,900 --> 01:32:12,277 Dan Jones, lead Senate investigator. 1891 01:32:12,361 --> 01:32:14,947 Not the Senate staff. 1892 01:32:15,030 --> 01:32:16,823 The CIA. 1893 01:32:16,907 --> 01:32:18,492 Us? 1894 01:32:18,575 --> 01:32:22,079 Are-are you accusing me or my staff of breaking the law? 1895 01:32:22,162 --> 01:32:24,289 My understanding is that five CIA employees 1896 01:32:24,373 --> 01:32:27,125 entered a room that was off-limits. 1897 01:32:27,209 --> 01:32:28,335 On whose orders? 1898 01:32:28,418 --> 01:32:30,587 Senator Feinstein is right to call this 1899 01:32:30,671 --> 01:32:32,714 a violation of the separation of powers. 1900 01:32:32,798 --> 01:32:37,302 The CIA cannot spy on the U.S. Congress. 1901 01:32:39,221 --> 01:32:41,765 As inspector general, I’m gonna have to launch 1902 01:32:41,848 --> 01:32:45,978 a full investigation into the Agency’s actions. 1903 01:32:46,061 --> 01:32:48,188 (sighs) 1904 01:33:01,827 --> 01:33:04,204 (Feinstein sighs) 1905 01:33:05,998 --> 01:33:07,374 Am I going to jail? 1906 01:33:07,457 --> 01:33:09,501 FEINSTEIN: No, they’re dropping the charges. 1907 01:33:09,584 --> 01:33:11,295 You’re going back to work. 1908 01:33:11,378 --> 01:33:14,047 Take the most important findings, finish the summary-- 1909 01:33:14,131 --> 01:33:15,674 no more than 400 pages. 1910 01:33:15,757 --> 01:33:19,636 I’m going to ask the committee to vote to release it. 1911 01:33:25,642 --> 01:33:27,477 McDONOUGH: So, you saw they voted. 1912 01:33:27,561 --> 01:33:29,062 11 to three. 1913 01:33:29,146 --> 01:33:31,398 They want to release an executive summary. 1914 01:33:31,481 --> 01:33:33,817 That thing goes out, it puts my people in danger, 1915 01:33:33,900 --> 01:33:36,695 who are out there in a dangerous world today, 1916 01:33:36,778 --> 01:33:38,155 trying to do their jobs. 1917 01:33:38,238 --> 01:33:39,865 Pulls the rug out from under them. 1918 01:33:39,948 --> 01:33:43,035 Anything that you feel puts your people in harm’s way 1919 01:33:43,118 --> 01:33:44,369 stays classified. 1920 01:33:44,453 --> 01:33:47,247 My concern is this: If-if the Senate puts out 1921 01:33:47,331 --> 01:33:49,249 a small pile of pages and the press goes nuts, 1922 01:33:49,333 --> 01:33:52,419 then everybody’s gonna want to see a bigger pile of pages. 1923 01:33:52,502 --> 01:33:54,880 You keep saying the president wants to turn the page. 1924 01:33:54,963 --> 01:33:57,049 Well, then turn the page. 1925 01:33:57,132 --> 01:33:59,426 Close the damn book. 1926 01:34:05,098 --> 01:34:07,267 Senator Feinstein has asked the White House 1927 01:34:07,351 --> 01:34:10,645 to head up final comments and redactions. 1928 01:34:10,729 --> 01:34:13,815 She wants us right in the middle of it. 1929 01:34:13,899 --> 01:34:15,192 And? 1930 01:34:15,275 --> 01:34:19,112 And I think that’s exactly where you want us. 1931 01:34:19,196 --> 01:34:21,365 You’ll have the pen. 1932 01:34:23,283 --> 01:34:24,826 KRASS: Leadership specified 1933 01:34:24,910 --> 01:34:27,162 that we should redact anything that could result in 1934 01:34:27,245 --> 01:34:28,914 legal exposure for officers in the field, 1935 01:34:28,997 --> 01:34:30,916 past or present. 1936 01:34:30,999 --> 01:34:35,045 Basically, if there’s any questions, black it out. 1937 01:34:40,842 --> 01:34:43,011 You see this? 1938 01:34:51,019 --> 01:34:52,604 What the... 1939 01:34:52,687 --> 01:34:54,981 fuck is this? 1940 01:34:56,650 --> 01:34:58,402 (Morris talking quietly) 1941 01:34:58,485 --> 01:34:59,861 DANIEL: Good afternoon. Where’s Marcy? 1942 01:34:59,945 --> 01:35:01,029 SECRETARY: Conference room. 1943 01:35:01,113 --> 01:35:02,739 MORRIS: Early the next week. 1944 01:35:02,823 --> 01:35:05,033 Wednesday. 1945 01:35:05,117 --> 01:35:06,410 Yeah, that’ll work. 1946 01:35:06,493 --> 01:35:09,204 And you get me the agenda. Thank you. 1947 01:35:11,706 --> 01:35:13,375 Imagine you pick up a book, 1948 01:35:13,458 --> 01:35:16,420 and "blank" turns water into wine on page 237, 1949 01:35:16,503 --> 01:35:19,297 and on page 71 "blank" heals a leper, 1950 01:35:19,381 --> 01:35:22,676 and on page 295 "blank" rises from the dead. 1951 01:35:22,759 --> 01:35:25,053 How do you know the blanks are all the same person? 1952 01:35:25,137 --> 01:35:27,722 I thought that the CIA agreed to using pseudonyms. 1953 01:35:27,806 --> 01:35:30,600 They did, but now even the fake names are gone. 1954 01:35:30,684 --> 01:35:33,061 And the dates. 1955 01:35:34,980 --> 01:35:36,857 The entire story is gone. 1956 01:35:44,281 --> 01:35:47,200 I hope you took your strong pills today. 1957 01:35:48,827 --> 01:35:51,455 McDONOUGH: Isn’t it enough to know what actually happened? 1958 01:35:51,538 --> 01:35:53,999 Do we need to know the names of the people involved? 1959 01:35:54,082 --> 01:35:55,792 But the actual names aren’t in the report. 1960 01:35:55,876 --> 01:35:57,836 Someone could figure out who our people are 1961 01:35:57,919 --> 01:35:59,004 based on their pseudonyms. 1962 01:35:59,087 --> 01:36:00,922 You know, I found a photo of my husband 1963 01:36:01,006 --> 01:36:02,924 on the Internet linking him to me. 1964 01:36:03,008 --> 01:36:04,468 Secrecy is very hard to maintain. 1965 01:36:04,551 --> 01:36:06,219 I believe you introduced your husband publicly 1966 01:36:06,303 --> 01:36:07,637 at your confirmation hearing. 1967 01:36:07,721 --> 01:36:08,722 It was on C-SPAN. 1968 01:36:08,805 --> 01:36:10,265 Some of these people-- 1969 01:36:10,348 --> 01:36:12,392 they are out there in the world, right now. 1970 01:36:12,476 --> 01:36:13,477 Yes, they are. 1971 01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:15,103 There’s an officer from Alec Station 1972 01:36:15,187 --> 01:36:17,230 mentioned 41 times in 500 pages. 1973 01:36:17,314 --> 01:36:19,232 In 1998, her team missed the bombing 1974 01:36:19,316 --> 01:36:22,027 of the U.S. embassy in Kenya and Tanzania. 1975 01:36:22,110 --> 01:36:23,403 1999, they missed the bombing 1976 01:36:23,487 --> 01:36:25,238 of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad. 1977 01:36:25,322 --> 01:36:28,909 In 2000, she was made aware of two Al Qaeda operatives 1978 01:36:28,992 --> 01:36:30,744 who arrived in Los Angeles. 1979 01:36:30,827 --> 01:36:32,370 FBI officers, working within the bin Laden unit, 1980 01:36:32,454 --> 01:36:33,914 requested permission to investigate. 1981 01:36:33,997 --> 01:36:35,624 That’s not how we want to play it. 1982 01:36:35,707 --> 01:36:38,043 DANIEL: The CIA knew they were on American soil 1983 01:36:38,126 --> 01:36:39,961 and didn’t do anything. 1984 01:36:40,045 --> 01:36:42,297 Al-Mihdhar then left the States to play a key role 1985 01:36:42,380 --> 01:36:43,924 in the bombing of the USS Cole, 1986 01:36:44,007 --> 01:36:47,010 before returning to hijack Flight 77 with al-Hazmi 1987 01:36:47,093 --> 01:36:48,678 and crash into the Pentagon. 1988 01:36:48,762 --> 01:36:51,097 FEINSTEIN: And you want to protect this person’s identity. 1989 01:36:51,181 --> 01:36:52,641 KRASS: We’d also like to redact 1990 01:36:52,724 --> 01:36:54,309 the pseudonyms of the contractors. 1991 01:36:54,392 --> 01:36:58,021 Dr. Mitchell was already quoted by name in The New Yorker. 1992 01:36:58,104 --> 01:37:00,815 He was handing out brochures at professional conferences 1993 01:37:00,899 --> 01:37:03,026 telling people he worked for the CIA. 1994 01:37:03,109 --> 01:37:05,695 If we are protecting the identities of CIA staff, 1995 01:37:05,779 --> 01:37:08,031 we need to protect our contractors as well. 1996 01:37:08,114 --> 01:37:10,325 Mitchell and Jessen were given a contract by the Agency 1997 01:37:10,408 --> 01:37:11,952 for a program that didn’t work. 1998 01:37:12,035 --> 01:37:13,745 The CIA also agreed to a five million dollar 1999 01:37:13,828 --> 01:37:16,706 indemnification clause for their company that covered, 2000 01:37:16,790 --> 01:37:19,876 among other expenses, criminal prosecution. 2001 01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:23,338 You know, I kept the rag we used on KSM. 2002 01:37:23,421 --> 01:37:27,217 You should eBay that bad boy when this is all over. 2003 01:37:27,300 --> 01:37:30,053 Make a mint. (chuckles softly) 2004 01:37:30,136 --> 01:37:31,888 DANIEL: An internal CIA memo concluded 2005 01:37:31,972 --> 01:37:34,724 that Mitchell and Jessen "have both shown blatant disregard 2006 01:37:34,808 --> 01:37:38,562 for the ethics shared by almost all of their colleagues." 2007 01:37:38,645 --> 01:37:41,439 The pseudonyms for the contractors need to stay. 2008 01:37:41,523 --> 01:37:43,692 (page turns) 2009 01:37:43,775 --> 01:37:45,360 McDONOUGH: Guys, we’ve been at this for months. 2010 01:37:45,443 --> 01:37:46,736 DANIEL: What about the locations of the black sites? 2011 01:37:46,820 --> 01:37:48,238 The country names? 2012 01:37:48,321 --> 01:37:49,489 We made commitments to those countries 2013 01:37:49,573 --> 01:37:50,782 to maintain their secrecy. 2014 01:37:50,865 --> 01:37:52,242 No country names. 2015 01:37:52,325 --> 01:37:53,827 Not open to negotiating these points. 2016 01:37:53,910 --> 01:37:56,371 We need to consider the morale of the CIA here. 2017 01:37:56,454 --> 01:37:57,914 Now, we-we publish this report, 2018 01:37:57,998 --> 01:38:00,458 -there’s a very good chance we could lose them. -Lose them? 2019 01:38:00,542 --> 01:38:02,127 What does that mean? 2020 01:38:02,210 --> 01:38:04,087 What about the morale of all the people at the Agency 2021 01:38:04,170 --> 01:38:05,422 who spoke out against the program? 2022 01:38:05,505 --> 01:38:06,840 What about them? 2023 01:38:06,923 --> 01:38:08,925 People who sent cables back from black sites 2024 01:38:09,009 --> 01:38:10,552 saying they wanted to be transferred 2025 01:38:10,635 --> 01:38:12,554 because they were disgusted by what was being done. 2026 01:38:12,637 --> 01:38:13,972 All right, uh, look. 2027 01:38:14,055 --> 01:38:15,974 We have-- Dan more than anyone-- 2028 01:38:16,057 --> 01:38:18,310 have worked to uncover the truth about this 2029 01:38:18,393 --> 01:38:19,644 when no one else would. 2030 01:38:19,728 --> 01:38:21,813 We will not allow this to be covered up 2031 01:38:21,896 --> 01:38:23,106 by the executive branch. 2032 01:38:23,189 --> 01:38:24,816 President Obama called it torture. 2033 01:38:24,899 --> 01:38:26,401 Bush and Cheney wouldn’t do that. 2034 01:38:26,484 --> 01:38:30,071 He signed an executive order getting rid of it. 2035 01:38:30,155 --> 01:38:31,531 Now, just imagine, God forbid, 2036 01:38:31,615 --> 01:38:33,950 there’s another terrorist attack on our watch. 2037 01:38:34,034 --> 01:38:35,910 There won’t be another Democrat 2038 01:38:35,994 --> 01:38:38,079 in the White House for 20 years. 2039 01:38:38,163 --> 01:38:40,248 DANIEL: I’d also like to talk about the redactions 2040 01:38:40,332 --> 01:38:42,417 -concerning KSM. -(McDonough sighs) 2041 01:38:42,500 --> 01:38:44,878 WOLF BLITZER: Cory Gardner, the Republican challenger, 2042 01:38:44,961 --> 01:38:46,755 will be the next United States senator 2043 01:38:46,838 --> 01:38:48,214 from the state of Colorado, 2044 01:38:48,298 --> 01:38:50,884 defeating the Democratic incumbent, Mark Udall. 2045 01:38:50,967 --> 01:38:53,928 A major, major win for the Republicans. 2046 01:38:54,012 --> 01:38:56,097 Chris Frates is standing by in Colorado. 2047 01:38:56,181 --> 01:38:58,350 FRATES: This is huge for, uh, Colorado, Wolf. 2048 01:38:58,433 --> 01:39:01,478 This is the first time a Republican has won 2049 01:39:01,561 --> 01:39:04,981 the Senate race state-wide in Colorado since 2002. 2050 01:39:05,065 --> 01:39:06,650 Big night for Colorado, 2051 01:39:06,733 --> 01:39:09,944 and a big night for control of the United States Senate. 2052 01:39:12,822 --> 01:39:14,991 She’s expecting you. 2053 01:39:15,075 --> 01:39:17,410 FEINSTEIN: So, I just got a call 2054 01:39:17,494 --> 01:39:20,121 from Secretary of State Kerry. 2055 01:39:20,205 --> 01:39:23,249 He thinks that, with the release of the report, 2056 01:39:23,333 --> 01:39:27,128 that the coalition against ISIL could collapse. 2057 01:39:27,212 --> 01:39:29,130 Isn’t that a bit convenient? 2058 01:39:29,214 --> 01:39:30,840 -He calls you just before... -Dan. 2059 01:39:30,924 --> 01:39:33,843 Wh-Where did Kerry get his intel on this? The CIA? 2060 01:39:33,927 --> 01:39:37,138 -Is it credible? -Embassies could be attacked. 2061 01:39:37,222 --> 01:39:38,807 Hostages could be killed. 2062 01:39:38,890 --> 01:39:40,892 It’s just another stall tactic. 2063 01:39:42,519 --> 01:39:45,063 He suggested giving the report to the president, 2064 01:39:45,146 --> 01:39:48,858 so that it could be released later, when hostilities cease. 2065 01:39:48,942 --> 01:39:51,820 You lose control of the committee in a week, Senator. 2066 01:39:51,903 --> 01:39:53,488 Yes, I am aware of what happens 2067 01:39:53,571 --> 01:39:56,282 when the Republicans are in the majority, Dan. 2068 01:39:57,826 --> 01:40:01,496 Look, I want to get this report out as much as anyone, 2069 01:40:01,579 --> 01:40:04,582 but I have known him a long time. 2070 01:40:04,666 --> 01:40:06,000 I tend to believe him. 2071 01:40:06,084 --> 01:40:07,752 Nobody else is gonna tell this story. 2072 01:40:07,836 --> 01:40:09,254 -MORRIS: Dan, the senator has a luncheon. -If we stop now, 2073 01:40:09,337 --> 01:40:10,714 aren’t we a part of the cover-up? 2074 01:40:10,797 --> 01:40:12,757 Strong pills, Senator? 2075 01:40:21,349 --> 01:40:24,936 I think you should go home and get some rest. 2076 01:40:25,019 --> 01:40:26,730 You look tired. 2077 01:40:26,813 --> 01:40:31,109 (sighs) Marcy, if I could have five minutes. 2078 01:40:31,192 --> 01:40:33,153 MORRIS: Of course. 2079 01:41:05,727 --> 01:41:07,937 (men talking quietly) 2080 01:41:44,891 --> 01:41:46,684 (doors unlock) 2081 01:42:11,668 --> 01:42:14,838 Did you ever meet a guy called Greg Craig? 2082 01:42:16,464 --> 01:42:19,384 Just in pa-- White House counsel when Obama took office? 2083 01:42:19,467 --> 01:42:21,928 -Just in passing. -Right. 2084 01:42:22,011 --> 01:42:26,224 So, right after he got elected, the president asked Craig 2085 01:42:26,307 --> 01:42:28,226 to come up with a plan to deal with 2086 01:42:28,309 --> 01:42:29,894 the aftermath of the torture program. 2087 01:42:29,978 --> 01:42:33,690 So, he got Secretary of Defense Gates, Janet Napolitano, 2088 01:42:33,773 --> 01:42:35,942 Hillary Clinton-- serious people-- in a room, 2089 01:42:36,025 --> 01:42:39,445 and he asked for their recommendation. 2090 01:42:39,529 --> 01:42:42,740 -And? -A-And the consensus 2091 01:42:42,824 --> 01:42:44,784 was that the president should appoint 2092 01:42:44,868 --> 01:42:46,619 an independent bipartisan commission 2093 01:42:46,703 --> 01:42:48,788 into interrogations and detainee treatment, 2094 01:42:48,872 --> 01:42:51,624 like a deep dive into what worked and what didn’t 2095 01:42:51,708 --> 01:42:54,919 and... who was responsible. 2096 01:42:55,003 --> 01:42:56,921 You know, like what they did after 9/11, 2097 01:42:57,005 --> 01:43:00,008 and like what you’ve been trying to do. 2098 01:43:00,091 --> 01:43:01,676 So why didn’t they do that? 2099 01:43:01,759 --> 01:43:04,804 Well, evidently, the president listened closely 2100 01:43:04,888 --> 01:43:06,598 to the recommendation. 2101 01:43:06,681 --> 01:43:10,727 He then thought about it, and then he said no. 2102 01:43:10,810 --> 01:43:15,023 He’d spent an entire campaign saying he was post-partisan, 2103 01:43:15,106 --> 01:43:17,233 so going after the Bush administration 2104 01:43:17,317 --> 01:43:19,527 flew in the face of all that. 2105 01:43:19,611 --> 01:43:24,240 And right then, everyone in that room changed their minds. 2106 01:43:24,324 --> 01:43:28,620 They sided with the president: no independent commission. 2107 01:43:28,703 --> 01:43:31,414 Everyone except Craig, 2108 01:43:31,497 --> 01:43:34,876 because he thought it was too important. 2109 01:43:34,959 --> 01:43:36,836 You couldn’t just torture people, 2110 01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:40,924 lie about it, and then hide it from history. 2111 01:43:41,007 --> 01:43:44,010 A few months later, Craig was gone, 2112 01:43:44,093 --> 01:43:47,096 and this mess wound up with the Senate. 2113 01:43:47,180 --> 01:43:48,932 And you. 2114 01:43:49,015 --> 01:43:51,476 Well, the president must have known that, by doing that, 2115 01:43:51,559 --> 01:43:53,353 he was making it next to impossible. 2116 01:43:53,436 --> 01:43:55,980 Uh, he came from the Senate. 2117 01:43:56,064 --> 01:43:59,025 Dan, they sent you off to build a boat, 2118 01:43:59,108 --> 01:44:01,194 but they had no intention of sailing it. 2119 01:44:01,277 --> 01:44:05,156 They probably didn’t think you’d get as far as you did. 2120 01:44:06,950 --> 01:44:09,285 (car doors closing in distance) 2121 01:44:09,369 --> 01:44:11,245 Let me ask you a question. 2122 01:44:11,329 --> 01:44:15,041 If the CIA knew that torture didn’t work, 2123 01:44:15,124 --> 01:44:17,251 why did they continue to do it? 2124 01:44:19,003 --> 01:44:21,381 After 9/11, everyone was scared... 2125 01:44:21,464 --> 01:44:23,508 (engine starts in distance) 2126 01:44:23,591 --> 01:44:25,093 ...scared it might happen again, 2127 01:44:25,176 --> 01:44:27,428 and the CIA would be blamed if it did. 2128 01:44:27,512 --> 01:44:29,263 Or maybe they were ashamed. 2129 01:44:29,347 --> 01:44:31,224 You know, how come the most sophisticated 2130 01:44:31,307 --> 01:44:33,434 intelligence organization on Earth 2131 01:44:33,518 --> 01:44:35,853 couldn’t keep its own people safe? 2132 01:44:35,937 --> 01:44:38,690 But fear and shame don’t make for better policy decisions, 2133 01:44:38,773 --> 01:44:40,650 and the fact that the people who we captured 2134 01:44:40,733 --> 01:44:42,986 didn’t look like us or believe the same things we do 2135 01:44:43,069 --> 01:44:45,405 made it that much easier to do the things we did. 2136 01:44:45,488 --> 01:44:46,864 So once the CIA program started, 2137 01:44:46,948 --> 01:44:48,324 they had to keep telling people it worked, 2138 01:44:48,408 --> 01:44:49,492 even if it wasn’t true. 2139 01:44:49,575 --> 01:44:50,952 Their own position was that 2140 01:44:51,035 --> 01:44:53,413 if it didn’t work, it was illegal. 2141 01:44:53,496 --> 01:44:55,707 So they misrepresented the results. 2142 01:45:08,094 --> 01:45:13,433 If we had your report, we would print it tomorrow. 2143 01:45:13,516 --> 01:45:14,851 All of it. 2144 01:45:16,227 --> 01:45:17,770 The senator said she would release 2145 01:45:17,854 --> 01:45:19,939 -a summary of the report. -Really? 2146 01:45:20,023 --> 01:45:22,191 Over the objections of the CIA and the White House? 2147 01:45:22,275 --> 01:45:23,484 You really think that’s gonna happen? 2148 01:45:23,568 --> 01:45:25,361 If I gave it to you, what would happen? 2149 01:45:30,783 --> 01:45:32,744 (sighs) 2150 01:45:32,827 --> 01:45:34,704 Some people will think you’re a hero, 2151 01:45:34,787 --> 01:45:36,622 and some will probably think you’re a traitor. 2152 01:45:36,706 --> 01:45:39,500 Look at Edward Snowden. 2153 01:45:48,843 --> 01:45:50,553 No. If it’s gonna come out, 2154 01:45:50,636 --> 01:45:52,472 it’s gonna come out the right way. 2155 01:45:52,555 --> 01:45:54,849 What if it doesn’t? 2156 01:45:54,932 --> 01:45:57,143 Then I didn’t do my job. 2157 01:45:59,937 --> 01:46:01,147 I’m sorry. 2158 01:46:02,732 --> 01:46:04,108 Sorry. 2159 01:46:04,192 --> 01:46:06,569 (door closes) 2160 01:46:10,073 --> 01:46:12,241 (lock clicking) 2161 01:46:42,230 --> 01:46:44,607 (phone clicking) 2162 01:46:50,947 --> 01:46:52,824 McDONOUGH: So, with the Affordable Care Act 2163 01:46:52,907 --> 01:46:54,867 behind us, the president would like to begin 2164 01:46:54,951 --> 01:46:57,370 a serious discussion about immigration reform. 2165 01:46:57,453 --> 01:46:59,455 Now, obviously we’ve had some setbacks 2166 01:46:59,539 --> 01:47:01,499 in both the House and the Senate, 2167 01:47:01,582 --> 01:47:05,503 uh, so strategy has become paramount-- unity as well. 2168 01:47:05,586 --> 01:47:08,131 So, we would like to, uh, really start talking about... 2169 01:47:08,214 --> 01:47:10,049 Excuse me, Mr. McDonough. 2170 01:47:10,133 --> 01:47:12,552 I would like to discuss the report on the CIA 2171 01:47:12,635 --> 01:47:14,095 and the White House’s position. 2172 01:47:14,178 --> 01:47:16,764 That’s not the topic of this particular caucus. 2173 01:47:16,848 --> 01:47:18,933 Uh, the president would like to discuss... 2174 01:47:19,016 --> 01:47:21,435 HEINRICH: Our country did things the Nazis did, 2175 01:47:21,519 --> 01:47:23,938 things that made us condemn other regimes. 2176 01:47:24,021 --> 01:47:26,732 And the position of this administration 2177 01:47:26,816 --> 01:47:28,317 is to suppress this information, 2178 01:47:28,401 --> 01:47:30,278 to keep the people who did these things safe? 2179 01:47:30,361 --> 01:47:32,196 I can assure you that is not 2180 01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:34,532 the position of this administration, Senator. 2181 01:47:34,615 --> 01:47:36,576 ROCKEFELLER: You worked with John Brennan 2182 01:47:36,659 --> 01:47:38,286 at the National Security Council. 2183 01:47:38,369 --> 01:47:41,080 Now, I understand that Brennan gave this president 2184 01:47:41,164 --> 01:47:43,374 his first security briefing when he took office. 2185 01:47:43,457 --> 01:47:45,543 And now CIA Director Brennan 2186 01:47:45,626 --> 01:47:48,713 is working closely with the president on the drone program. 2187 01:47:48,796 --> 01:47:50,381 (chuckles softly) You know, it’s funny. 2188 01:47:50,464 --> 01:47:52,133 Every time I go over to the CIA, 2189 01:47:52,216 --> 01:47:53,759 they claim I’m doing the Senate’s bidding, 2190 01:47:53,843 --> 01:47:55,136 and every time I come here, 2191 01:47:55,219 --> 01:47:56,596 you claim I’m doing the CIA’s bidding. 2192 01:47:56,679 --> 01:47:59,974 I only have a few days left in my term here, 2193 01:48:00,057 --> 01:48:04,437 and if there isn’t a plan to release the report before I go, 2194 01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:07,106 I’m prepared to read it on the floor of the Senate. 2195 01:48:07,190 --> 01:48:08,649 And either the White House 2196 01:48:08,733 --> 01:48:10,651 or the Republicans will have to stop me. 2197 01:48:10,735 --> 01:48:12,111 McDONOUGH: What would you have us do? 2198 01:48:12,195 --> 01:48:13,654 Now, we go after Bush and Cheney on this, 2199 01:48:13,738 --> 01:48:15,489 what’s to prevent the Republicans 2200 01:48:15,573 --> 01:48:19,368 from coming back at us and trying to repeal health care? 2201 01:48:19,452 --> 01:48:22,205 Uh, we go after the CIA, uh, maybe they say, 2202 01:48:22,288 --> 01:48:25,249 "Okay, well, immigration reform is off the table." 2203 01:48:25,333 --> 01:48:27,251 Maybe it’s gun control. 2204 01:48:27,335 --> 01:48:32,340 Now, democracy is messy... but let’s just think 2205 01:48:32,423 --> 01:48:35,134 how many countries there are in the world 2206 01:48:35,218 --> 01:48:37,261 where a report like this could even get done. 2207 01:48:37,345 --> 01:48:40,348 (quiet murmuring) 2208 01:48:41,974 --> 01:48:43,935 I would like us to be more than 2209 01:48:44,018 --> 01:48:45,561 the country that did the report. 2210 01:48:45,645 --> 01:48:48,314 I’d like us to be the country that made it public. 2211 01:48:48,397 --> 01:48:52,026 And that is what I intend to see happen. 2212 01:48:52,109 --> 01:48:53,986 MAN: I yield the floor 2213 01:48:54,070 --> 01:48:57,531 to the senior senator from California. 2214 01:48:57,615 --> 01:48:59,742 (quiet murmuring) 2215 01:49:11,295 --> 01:49:13,214 Over the past six years, 2216 01:49:13,297 --> 01:49:17,051 a small team of investigators pored over more than 2217 01:49:17,134 --> 01:49:21,555 6.3 million pages of CIA records 2218 01:49:21,639 --> 01:49:23,891 to complete this report. 2219 01:49:23,975 --> 01:49:27,937 It shows that the CIA’s actions a decade ago 2220 01:49:28,020 --> 01:49:31,732 are a stain on our values and on our history. 2221 01:49:31,816 --> 01:49:35,236 The release of this 500-page summary 2222 01:49:35,319 --> 01:49:37,238 cannot remove that stain, 2223 01:49:37,321 --> 01:49:41,742 but it can and does say to our people and the world 2224 01:49:41,826 --> 01:49:45,663 that America is big enough to admit when it’s wrong 2225 01:49:45,746 --> 01:49:49,792 and confident enough to learn from its mistakes. 2226 01:49:49,875 --> 01:49:53,087 Releasing this report is an important step toward 2227 01:49:53,170 --> 01:49:56,507 restoring our values and showing the world 2228 01:49:56,590 --> 01:50:01,053 that we are, in fact, a just and lawful society. 2229 01:50:01,137 --> 01:50:05,516 There are those who will seize upon the report and say, 2230 01:50:05,599 --> 01:50:08,311 "See what the Americans did?" 2231 01:50:08,394 --> 01:50:10,021 And they will try to use it 2232 01:50:10,104 --> 01:50:13,733 to justify evil actions or to incite more violence. 2233 01:50:13,816 --> 01:50:17,361 We cannot prevent that. 2234 01:50:17,445 --> 01:50:19,363 But history will judge us 2235 01:50:19,447 --> 01:50:24,118 by our commitment to a just society governed by law 2236 01:50:24,201 --> 01:50:27,455 and the willingness to face an ugly truth 2237 01:50:27,538 --> 01:50:31,125 and say "never again." 2238 01:50:31,208 --> 01:50:32,626 Thank you. 2239 01:50:32,710 --> 01:50:36,589 I now yield the floor to the senator from Arizona. 2240 01:50:38,424 --> 01:50:40,634 JOHN McCAIN (over TV): What might come as a surprise 2241 01:50:40,718 --> 01:50:44,180 is how little these practices did to aid our efforts to bring 2242 01:50:44,263 --> 01:50:47,391 9/11 culprits to justice and to find and prevent 2243 01:50:47,475 --> 01:50:50,227 terrorist attacks today and tomorrow. 2244 01:50:50,311 --> 01:50:52,063 That could be a real surprise, 2245 01:50:52,146 --> 01:50:54,732 since it contradicts the many assurances 2246 01:50:54,815 --> 01:50:57,026 provided by intelligence officials, 2247 01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:59,070 on the record and in private, 2248 01:50:59,153 --> 01:51:02,865 that enhanced interrogation techniques were indispensable 2249 01:51:02,948 --> 01:51:04,867 in the war against terrorism. 2250 01:51:04,950 --> 01:51:08,371 I think it’s an insult to the many intelligence officers 2251 01:51:08,454 --> 01:51:10,373 who have acquired good intelligence 2252 01:51:10,456 --> 01:51:12,541 without hurting or degrading prisoners 2253 01:51:12,625 --> 01:51:16,462 to assert we can’t win this war without such methods. 2254 01:51:16,545 --> 01:51:19,548 Yes, we can, and we will. 2255 01:51:19,632 --> 01:51:21,759 But in the end, 2256 01:51:21,842 --> 01:51:24,428 torture’s failure to serve its intended purpose 2257 01:51:24,512 --> 01:51:27,807 isn’t the main reason to oppose its use. 2258 01:51:27,890 --> 01:51:32,770 This question isn’t about our enemies; it’s about us. 2259 01:51:32,853 --> 01:51:38,192 It’s about who we were, who we are, and who we aspire to be. 2260 01:51:38,275 --> 01:51:42,279 It’s about how we represent ourselves to the world. 2261 01:51:42,363 --> 01:51:45,157 Our enemies act without conscience. 2262 01:51:45,241 --> 01:51:47,201 We must not. 2263 01:51:49,578 --> 01:51:51,664 RACHEL MADDOW (over TV): Senator Dianne Feinstein today 2264 01:51:51,747 --> 01:51:54,500 -exposed the CIA’s now extinct -(typing) 2265 01:51:54,583 --> 01:51:56,919 enhanced interrogation techniques. 2266 01:51:57,002 --> 01:51:58,587 The thing that strikes me about 2267 01:51:58,671 --> 01:52:00,047 what the Senate was doing today-- 2268 01:52:00,131 --> 01:52:02,007 Dianne Feinstein, Jay Rockefeller-- 2269 01:52:02,091 --> 01:52:03,843 is they were doing everything they can 2270 01:52:03,926 --> 01:52:06,554 to make sure this doesn’t happen again. 2271 01:52:06,637 --> 01:52:08,722 Because by going public like this... 2272 01:52:08,806 --> 01:52:10,891 Dan. 2273 01:52:10,975 --> 01:52:12,476 You did well. 2274 01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:14,311 Thank you. 2275 01:52:15,020 --> 01:52:16,689 Thank you. 2276 01:52:16,772 --> 01:52:20,484 MADDOW: "We’re gonna be on you if you try to do this." 2277 01:52:23,612 --> 01:52:25,948 (birds chirping) 2278 01:55:51,070 --> 01:55:54,406 ("So American" by Portugal. The Man playing) 2279 01:56:07,795 --> 01:56:11,048 ♪ If pain was a color to paint on you ♪ 2280 01:56:11,131 --> 01:56:14,093 ♪ Your heart would be the color blue ♪ 2281 01:56:14,176 --> 01:56:18,055 ♪ Be a gradient from there until your body met your hair ♪ 2282 01:56:18,138 --> 01:56:19,682 ♪ Which remained a silver ♪ 2283 01:56:19,765 --> 01:56:22,893 ♪ You are the one they call Jesus Christ ♪ 2284 01:56:22,976 --> 01:56:25,938 ♪ Who didn’t know no rock and roll ♪ 2285 01:56:26,021 --> 01:56:29,483 ♪ Just a mission and a gun to paint rainbows in Vietnam ♪ 2286 01:56:29,566 --> 01:56:31,402 ♪ And a heart that always told you ♪ 2287 01:56:31,485 --> 01:56:33,904 ♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪ 2288 01:56:34,905 --> 01:56:38,117 ♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪ 2289 01:56:38,200 --> 01:56:41,870 ♪ So who wrote the rules? Who wrote the rules? ♪ 2290 01:56:41,954 --> 01:56:43,747 ♪ Who wrote the rules? ♪ 2291 01:56:43,831 --> 01:56:48,001 ♪ They said every one of you will never try to lend a hand ♪ 2292 01:56:48,085 --> 01:56:51,880 ♪ When the policemen don’t understand ♪ 2293 01:56:51,964 --> 01:56:57,177 ♪ Boys, all you boys, think it’s so American ♪ 2294 01:56:58,804 --> 01:57:04,184 ♪ Girls, all you girls, yeah, you’re so American ♪ 2295 01:57:07,896 --> 01:57:10,816 ♪ He may not be born of this land ♪ 2296 01:57:10,899 --> 01:57:13,902 ♪ But he was born of this world ♪ 2297 01:57:13,986 --> 01:57:15,779 ♪ He was born of all the mothers ♪ 2298 01:57:15,863 --> 01:57:17,489 ♪ And the colors of our brothers ♪ 2299 01:57:17,573 --> 01:57:19,533 ♪ And the love that was started ♪ 2300 01:57:19,616 --> 01:57:22,619 ♪ You are the one they call Jesus Christ ♪ 2301 01:57:22,703 --> 01:57:25,748 ♪ Who may not know no rock and roll ♪ 2302 01:57:25,831 --> 01:57:27,583 ♪ And there may not be a Heaven ♪ 2303 01:57:27,666 --> 01:57:29,418 ♪ Or a place of which to send you ♪ 2304 01:57:29,501 --> 01:57:30,961 ♪ But you know in the end ♪ 2305 01:57:31,044 --> 01:57:33,589 ♪ There’s madness in us all ♪ 2306 01:57:34,590 --> 01:57:36,967 ♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪ 2307 01:57:37,968 --> 01:57:40,262 ♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪ 2308 01:57:41,263 --> 01:57:44,600 ♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪ 2309 01:57:44,683 --> 01:57:48,312 ♪ So who wrote the rules? Who wrote the rules? ♪ 2310 01:57:48,395 --> 01:57:50,314 ♪ Who wrote the rules? ♪ 2311 01:57:50,397 --> 01:57:54,568 ♪ They said every one of you will never try to lend a hand ♪ 2312 01:57:54,651 --> 01:57:58,447 ♪ When the policemen don’t understand ♪ 2313 01:57:58,530 --> 01:58:03,744 ♪ Boys, all you boys, think it’s so American ♪ 2314 01:58:05,370 --> 01:58:10,751 ♪ Girls, all you girls, yeah, you’re so American ♪ 2315 01:58:12,211 --> 01:58:14,797 ♪ There’s two eyes for every one of us ♪ 2316 01:58:14,880 --> 01:58:18,842 ♪ But somebody got there first and took them all ♪ 2317 01:58:18,926 --> 01:58:21,595 ♪ There’s two eyes for every one of us ♪ 2318 01:58:21,678 --> 01:58:24,807 ♪ But somebody got there first and took them all ♪ 2319 01:58:39,321 --> 01:58:44,368 ♪ Man, oh, man, you think it’s so American ♪ 2320 01:58:46,078 --> 01:58:51,124 ♪ Man, oh, man, yeah, you’re so American ♪ 2321 01:58:52,876 --> 01:58:57,840 ♪ Man, oh, man, you think it’s so American ♪ 2322 01:58:59,550 --> 01:59:04,596 ♪ Man, oh, man, yeah, you’re so American ♪ 2323 01:59:06,139 --> 01:59:08,517 ♪ There’s two eyes for every one of us ♪ 2324 01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:12,563 ♪ But somebody got there first and took them all ♪ 2325 01:59:12,646 --> 01:59:15,274 ♪ There’s two eyes for every one of us ♪ 2326 01:59:15,357 --> 01:59:18,777 ♪ But somebody got there first and took them all. ♪ 2327 01:59:21,613 --> 01:59:23,782 (music ends)